Switching to Linux, what do I need to know?

Discussion in 'Linux' started by ceo54, Jan 6, 2025 at 7:46 PM.

  1. Will Kweks

    Will Kweks Rock Star

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    Might be an odd recommendation from someone who's use Linux for 20+ years (not all on desktop, mind), but don't get rid of your Windows install, that's fine for your audio and/or gaming purposes.

    Instead set up a Linux box to replace various services first, things like storage, file transfers etc. This will help you to get your feet wet on how to configure Linux because it's going to be text files. Learn how Docker works since it's still pretty bad on Windows and macOS, set up a *arr stack to automate your media downloads or something. After you get a feel for it there's no going back, and you can install a Linux desktop for your internet consumption since it's good there.

    But it's not going to be a Windows or macOS general replacement on the desktop, ignore that.

    Personally, out of the 5 computers I've got humming along at home, 1 is a Windows desktop, 1 is a Mac laptop, but 3 of them are Linux (2 servers and my work laptop). I see no reason to try to replace Windows or anything since it works for stuff like audio production, and I do Linux for a living.

    Of course, if you're going to be setting everything up from zero, you can spec out hardware that's all Linux compatible, and only use software that works on Linux (say, Bitwig or Reaper instead of Ableton or Cubase), then it'll work just fine.
     
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  2. Mr.Mister

    Mr.Mister Ultrasonic

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    I have tried to switch to Linux for 20 years.
    Honest question: do you want to work productively or do you like to solve computer problems, or are you a nerd?

    The problem with the Linux community after all these years still is, that its dominated by nerds who have ZERO understanding, that ppl who need to get work done, see computers only as a tool, and not as a girlfriend (well there are some positive aspects to see girls that way, too, but that's another topic :) ).

    There are several huge obstacles, nobody in the Linux-expert forums probably will tell you, because they love to solve problems with the command line tool for hours, and if you do not, then you are viewed as a low IQ imbecile...


    1. Installation of software is bound to the Linux software database of your OS. It's not like in Windows, that you find a program for Windows and you can install it. :wink:
    2. For installation it can be necessary to use the command line, like 40 years ago. :guru:

    3. If you do not want to be stuck to a Linux version, that cannot be upgraded (yes, that's possible, that nerds recommend distros, that nail you down on Win 3.11 forever), make sure to use a distro with rolling updates. :woot:


    Overall, for music production, IMO stay far, far away!

    For everyday browsing, emails and a bit of office use, ZorinOS is quite useable, if you come from Windows.

    If you work only with a very specific software, and that software is available and maintained on Linux, then it might be worth a try.

    My 2 ct.

    ps: I run ZorinOS in a VM for banking only
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2025 at 10:35 AM
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  3. ptepper

    ptepper Kapellmeister

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    Again, and speaking from direct practical experience, if you use native Linux plugins and/or stock plugins in Reaper or Bitwig there's no meaningful difference in performance between MacOS, Windows and Linux versions.

    Depending on the hardware configuration, there can be a difference in lowest achievable latency, but it's usually just one step in terms of buffer size (for example 32 instead of 64 samples) and it can go either way. Last time I did the testing, a few years ago, it was on a dual-boot Intel i5-8600 based configuration and the Linux version of Reaper got me lower latency than the Windows version. Since then I just stopped worrying.

    That's because there have been RT versions of Linux kernel for many years now. Even the standard versions were easily configured for real time critical applications. In that area Linux has long been considered superior to Windows, even before recent integration of RT functionality into the standard kernel.
     
  4. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro

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    Can't agree here. Based on my testing, Windows 10 running WASAPI at 512 samples, could in my case run 82 instances of ReaComp (latest DawBench project).
    Lubuntu with Pipewire, set to 512 samples at 48k sample rate, could run 106 instances of ReaComp.
    Performance of linux file systems also far exceeds that of NTFS, especially when dealing with small files.
    Running VSTs over Wine does introduce small performance penalty, usually 2-5%, however this is more than compensated with better audio handling over Pipewire, rather than relying on vendors (e.g. RME) to fix what has been always broken, and charge a premium for it.

    As was recommended, I would also suggest starting with Linux Mint, mainly because you get an Ubuntu generic kernel with preinstalled Pipewire. Just a few tweaks necessary to tune it for low latency (preempt=full).
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2025 at 1:51 PM
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  5. Garamondo Furbish

    Garamondo Furbish Audiosexual

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    I suggest you pull the factory original drive from the computer and work with a fresh ssd or hdd, and keep the original as a backup.
    you can run a dual boot, and if your computer has 2 drives, its easier to install windows on 1 and linux on the other and just use the bios options to pick an operating sytem.

    2 machines in one box,

    Linux is very different at a program level from windows, totally divergent evolution. Linux can and usually is skinned to look like a windows operating environment, with many of the basic user functions being simiiiar, such as adjusting screen resolution, background color or images, etc.

    you can run linux from a usb drive (thumb drive) it will be a little slower based on the speed of the port, but it will give you a feel for running linux, WITHOUT requiring it to be installed. This is a called a LIVE DISK or LIVE IMAGE.

     
  6. Garamondo Furbish

    Garamondo Furbish Audiosexual

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    here's a great tutorial on running a dual boot setup with 2 drives

     
  7. Garamondo Furbish

    Garamondo Furbish Audiosexual

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    and here is an overview of several different ways to run operating systems including using virtual machines. I have installed a linux mint as virtual machine on several laptops and it works pretty well.

     
  8. Garamondo Furbish

    Garamondo Furbish Audiosexual

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    most of the internet backbone runs on linux or BSD Unix.
    its quite a capable operating system.

    if your applications are only written for windows or mac, you'd likely want to stay with windows or mac, this should be obvious and intutive
     
  9. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    that's the beauty - you won't be able

    so you're just trying to justify new learning material?

    then your deal is broken

    then it's the end of the discussion, lol

    on more serious note, if you want to learn Linux/Ubuntu, but need Windows as daily driver, you should definitely look into WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux), from there you can learn Docker and various more advanced stuff
    :chilling:
     
  10. Garamondo Furbish

    Garamondo Furbish Audiosexual

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    yes linux and other real time operating systems are frequently used in medical equipment like CT scanners, etc.
     
  11. Garamondo Furbish

    Garamondo Furbish Audiosexual

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    switching to linux

     
  12. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    it's always said Linux for audio production will catch up someday. And that is likely true, if that one day Windows and Mac for audio progress freezes in place for a few years. Dual boot really is the way to go. If you do not want to split the disk into multiple partitions, then the Live distro USB option is passable or small external ssd. If you setup the drive to be persistent, it will keep all changes and any files you want saved. It's much nicer to have it as the only OS on the machine, but mostly if it is a spare machine. Dual boot on the same physical drive is a good way to find yourself looking at a blank screen if you are just starting brand new with linux.
     
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  13. DirtyRoots

    DirtyRoots Member

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    I would dual-boot Linux Mint Cinnamon for a longer period of time to get used to the new workflow.
    Running Reaper on it with Tukan's and stock plugins, very usable IMO.
     
  14. voidSeeker

    voidSeeker Kapellmeister

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  15. midi-man

    midi-man Audiosexual

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    I forgot to mention wine will let you run many windows programs.
     
  16. ᑕ⊕ֆᗰIᑢ

    ᑕ⊕ֆᗰIᑢ Platinum Record

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    :dunno:

    In my experience,
    the difference in Performance between Windows 7/10 and Linux is.. Abysmal :yes:

    Doesn't matter what you do:
    RT Kernel (Xanmod) - Check
    CPU IRQ affinity/isolation - Check
    IRQ Priority in "/etc/default/rtirq" - Check
    Prioritize Audio Threads in "/etc/security/limits.conf" - Check
    Set Hardware Timers - Check (/etc/udev/rules.d/40-timer-permissions.rules)
    Set Max user Freq. - Check (/etc/tmpfiles.d/maxfreq.conf)
    Max user Watches - Check (/etc/sysctl.d/99-sysctl.conf)
    Highest Priority on Pulseaudio values - Check (~/.config/pulse/daemon.conf)
    Audio Driver Config and Priority in /etc/modprobe.d/snd_ice1712.conf
    ... and more!

    -While in stock Windows 7 I can work in a Reaper project with 2000+ tracks,
    with tens of Kontakt intances, hundreds of instruments/libraries loaded, hundreds of VST and FX loaded..

    iow the entire Orchestral Soundtrack wangdanga..

    I can still hit Play, and the motherfucking thing will chug along at 512 latency samples like it's Nothing.

    In the most Optimized Debian with the same PC and hardware, and using Reaper I can have:
    One Piano instrument in sfz, One EQ, One Reverb, One Comp - Period
    (All Native)

    Adding anything else will make the shit Crackle like mad.

    So the only thing I can do with Linux is: Practice Piano,
    whereas in Windows I can Produce a fully featured Orchestral Soundtrack like it's nothing.

    And that's perfect tho!
    I didn't want or pretend anything else than that in Linux Audio; to practice my Guitar and Piano :yes:



    -So I don't know.. of course the mileage is gonna vary,
    and the Hardware you use will make a difference.

    But it's either my particular computer/interface is wrong on Linux,
    or we're not talking about Production at the same Scale and magnitude.


    Ofc you can use Linux professionally to do any isolated task.
    Be it Audio Editing, Writing a Score, Recording a few tracks etc..

    But you cannot get on the same Scale and magnitude as Windows on the same computer,
    not if we're talking Production on a Massive scale like an Orchestral Soundtrack requires..

    Excuse me, but I don't see it.. :no:
    (at least not with my outdated hardware.
    Maybe with the latest Ryzen and RME/Motu interface performance hits are so negligible it can chug along on that Scale just fine..)


    I Love my Debian, Arch, and Kali Linux installations to the bone, I'm telling you.
    (and wifislax)

    For me there's no going back to Windows for the Desktop PC experience,
    much less Macos.. Never!

    But at the same time, you're not making me leave Win7/10 for Music Production :wink:
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2025 at 7:25 PM
  17. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

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    if you consider a fraction at limited reliability "many" then yea I guess :rofl:
     
  18. midi-man

    midi-man Audiosexual

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    I have had good luck with wine not for audio but for other stufff.
     
  19. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro

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    I think it's the RT kernel messing it up. Had a similar, yet less extreme issues with it, basically crackling way before hitting the RT CPU at 100%.

    My experience in contrast is trying to duplicate 32 to 64 instances of SWAM instrument causes Reaper to stop responding under Win10, while the same loads fine and faster under Lubuntu (even with Wine in the way). :dunno:
    Biggest issue here with linux is the lack of native plugins and software and/or suitable alternatives. There are thousands of FOSS plugins for LV2 and VST3, but so not many virtual instruments, and only a handful of devs provide native vst3 so.

    Wine works, for 95% of cases. The problem is, when your purchased plugins/instruments don't work. All in all, there is no optimal solution, both Windows, Linux and MacOS have their share of issues. But personally, I've chosen Linux as a way forward for music production, simply because the other two alternatives are progressively more and more painful to deal with.

    Linux for audio production so far stays within the enthusiasts more than professionals, but there is no shortage of tracks and albums composed and produced on that operating system, as apparent from the music section of linuxmusicians.com forum.
     
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  20. ptepper

    ptepper Kapellmeister

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    So based on a single grotesquely unscientific comparison using outdated hardware and in spite of multiple opposing accounts presented in this thread and elsewhere you persist in shooting out logical fallacies regarding Linux and embarrassing yourself.

    It takes only one successful example to invalidate a claim that something can't be done.

    There are countless similar horror stories about crackling and all kinds of other audio related problems under Windows and yet no sane person would declare Windows unfit for music production. Just like no man would declare the entire male half of the human population incapable of procreating just because he himself can't get a hard-on.
     
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