With the mentioned mindset it's impossible. Their path reaches nowhere ...

 

If you train all living beings (including viruses, plants, animals, etc.) so that they can understand humans and their needs, you will try forever, such a thing will not be possible. Man is a super complex being that no creature can understand him. Man himself cannot fully understand himself, let alone other beings.
Artificial intelligence has much lower intelligence than other living beings. Artificial intelligence is nothing but a slightly more complicated algorithm than other algorithms. And despite all the apparent progress in its evolution, you see its results and productions.
Unfortunately, there is a possibility that in the future it will be stated that the developers of artificial intelligence have used a series of inefficient algorithms in its development, which ultimately robots are better than artificial intelligence. If the use of artificial intelligence was supposed to answer, it would have answered by now. All these low-quality products that have filled the internet are ineffective examples of the development of this tool. Although the passage of time cannot solve this particular problem because the development of artificial intelligence, at least in the field of art, does not go anywhere with such unwise processing algorithms, and waiting for one day to reach the point where to be proud of artificial intelligence products is a futile expectation.

 

Again, I see people really excited about what AI can currently do, but when we talk about the implications for artists/technicians who produce in their respective areas (and mainly the music market, which historically exploits musicians and technicians at the pleasure of trends), things become a mix of guesswork and almost no statistical survey. I collected the first comments on TUBE:

"Makes me proud to be a horrible saxophone player. No respectable AI would ever dare to reproduce my crap!"
"I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes!"
"AI won't stop me playing and recording music. Most of us have no audience and no money. It doesn't stop us being creative. We have to do it. The creative process means more to us."
"I agree with you that this revolution, which I have also been talking about for a long time (I have an entire country album on Spotify where I only wrote the lyrics… the rest is AI), will change things. But there will be no turning back. We have to learn to live with it. Fortunately, there’s still the live scene. As for me, I am a musician but also a DJ. And I must admit that I really enjoy creating songs in real-time during my events, talking about the people who are present, at birthdays or weddings for example. It’s a little extra that makes a big impact, as the general public is not yet fully aware of these new tools."
"Support your artists, big or small. This is the time to show your support, a like, a comment, merch, live shows...do what you can to support artists"
"My daughter is talented, hard-working, and brilliantly creative, with the soul of an artist. She's wanted to pursue fine arts as a career since she was a small child. She's received nothing but encouragement from teachers and mentors and even some patrons. Now that the time has come to decide what to do after highschool, though, she sees no viable future for herself in art. She'll still create art, but her post-secondary studies and career won't really be in an artistic field. My heart really goes out to our world's artists, whether they be visual artists, musicians/ composers/producers, dancers, poets/writers, performance artists or others. Given the consistent and prominent role of artists in social change, protest, and revolution, I worry about the vacuum left in their wake."

What would be your position regarding the considerations made by Beato?

Can you take a minute to comment on this video, dear @curtified?

 

The biggest fans of artificial intelligence are the listeners among the people and the creators and developers of the technology, and the biggest enemies are the artists. Of course, this is an obvious thing and I don't need to say it.
Technology creators and ordinary people have no responsibility towards art and each of them is looking for their own convenience and interests. Ordinary people are looking for ease of use and cheap access to content, and developers are looking for their own interests.
Artists are against the intervention of artificial intelligence in the art for two reasons. First, the job of art is threatened by artificial intelligence, secondly, low-quality works will replace quality works. If ordinary people had high artistic tastes, this risk would be felt less by artists, but the majority of people, listeners and even developers themselves, have low artistic tastes, and this makes artists worry that artificial intelligence developers give or sell their products to ordinary people and no one will use the artistic products of artists.
If ordinary people had strong artistic tastes and vision, there would be less worries among artists, but unfortunately, unfortunately the majority of people's vision towards art is weak, and this weakness increases the risk of fraud by developers. Developers who do not care about anything other than their poor quality products to be presented to people through digital tools.

 

AI is a real threat to creativity for artistes too. What happens when DAWs incorporate it fully, when you have a track that needs a bass and of course you really should program it yourself and stick to your artistic principles but you can hit a button and have Paul McCartney play that bass line for you, with his sound and his style, or any other great bass player whose league you aren't in. We're probably all going to be tempted to use this stuff and it will erode our own personal style and sound. I think it's more of an affront to the artistic principle of creativity than it is to concerns of commercial payment for our work (I say that because aside from performance, which isn't yet relevant in this discussion, there are very few successful musicians who make a living from making and distributing their own music).

 

Last decade, AI became a commercial product like any other, launched without any kind of deep societal reflection nor any real, serious study about its impact on actual human beings. The time of Turing and Von Neumann is gone, swept away by the big wind of $peculation, profit$ and productivi$m...

Big commercial recording companies (like Sony, Universal..., whatever) have already started to use AI in a day-to-day basis (even if they don't say a word about it), it's inevitable, and will become rapidly profitable. Something like automated mixing is seriously tested - and planned - for the months / years to come.

Concerning the music itself, they already have some big databases (AI Models), supercharged with the data concerning all successful songs since... the twenties! This BIG data reservoir is supposed to fuel the different composition applications / algorithms they experiment / play with as we speak.

If you're seriously into music business, AI can be an interesting asset to deeply analyze songs you are about to push on the market, and to help predict if the song can be successful, or not, based on the big database described earlier.

Forgot to say that the promotional campaigns of the past are also analyzed by the algorithms, to help determine what could be the most efficient way to promote your product.

I'm far from being a specialist about it, so my vocabulary about AI (...and business!) is quite limited, I hope anyway to have described clearly enough what I hear around me.

 

AI has helped boost my creativity. using bizzare sample generated by AI, using "AI" to generate a chord progression for me that i would never come up with on my own, etc etc etc

 

I was only talking about the scenario when a DAW will offer you the chance of using famous musician models with your music. I'm looking forward to seeing how AI will help with other aspects of making music, there are many ways it will help greatly, such as sound design and applying theory, all kinds of midi stuff, mixing, it seems endless.

 

Don't worry about it. They can never take the place of an artist. They are cheap options like fast food that do not have any healthy nutritional properties. My concern is more about changing the taste of the listeners and bringing them down. Because artificial intelligence algorithms show that they are not capable of producing artistic content. If you listen to all the songs that have been produced since the emergence of artificial intelligence in music until now, you will not be able to find even one defensible song. This shows that artificial intelligence has made a huge mistake in creating their fraudulent algorithms from the beginning, and because these codes were wrong from the beginning and written by people who are not knowledgeable in the field of music, you will not see a huge improvement in their productions unless they change their way of thinking and they will never be able to do this because they have been stuck in the wrong self-made intellectual traps.

 

If you have a little knowledge of artificial intelligence products, you will realize that they not only do not help you, but also mislead you more. This aberration may harm the future of your art.
Maybe you don't accept my words now and only think about fast productions, but little by little, when you want to take a more serious look at music, you'll realize that artificial intelligence algorithms don't provide you with many of the things you need. It's like drugs, which might be fun at first, but after a while, you have to spend money to get them, and you realize what a bad thing happened to you.
In addition, at any moment, it is possible that artificial intelligence platforms will be out of reach of ordinary people and you will have to pay money every month to use them and will not be possible for anyone who has gotten used to these platforms to abandon them.

 

If you want to learn and use music the right way, it's better to leave everything that shows you the fast way to produce a product. The methods that create this imagination in you that have made you the best producer. These quick methods can be anything. Artificial intelligence is one of those tools. The speed of artificial intelligence is illusory. Anyone who uses this tool thinks that they don't need anything else and just press a few buttons to make a song for them. This method of song production takes you away from thinking about all the details of the song and makes you think that everything you need is provided to you for free. But after a few years, you will realize that what artificial intelligence gave you is something made up of other people's work that has nothing to do with you and your interests. If you think about what this girl is doing, you will understand that this girl did not accept any of the suggestions that the artificial intelligence presented to her. If she wanted to give a positive answer to every suggestion made by artificial intelligence, she would not be in this position now. Get out of the illusion of artificial intelligence and look at music from a better perspective.

 

All the opponents... It's just not making sense to me. Those in the music industry who make a profit will gain advantages from generative AI (it enables cheaper and faster song creation). Those who didn't make money from music seem to be the loudest opponents of AI. Why?

 

Fascinating interview about AI integration: (summary: adapt or die).

(This wisdom below was extracted from the video using AI.)

Here is a summary of the key points from the conversation between Tom and Emad about AI:

SUMMARY:
- Tom Bilyeu and Emad Mostaque discuss the rapid advancement of AI technology and its potential impacts on society, the economy, and the future of humanity. They explore both the opportunities and risks posed by increasingly powerful AI systems.

IDEAS:
- AI is advancing extremely rapidly and will be massively disruptive and deflationary, affecting nearly every industry and job function
- AI is not going to replace humans, but humans with AI will replace humans that don't use AI
- There is a non-zero chance AI poses an existential threat to humanity if misaligned or used maliciously
- In the near-term, people need to learn to use AI or risk their careers becoming obsolete
- AI will cause an emotional and meaning crisis for many as their jobs are disrupted
- AI could lead to dystopian scenarios of human obsolescence, social control, and deception
- AI also has incredible potential to solve major problems and enable human flourishing if developed responsibly
- Personalized education and healthcare powered by AI could be utterly transformative
- AI needs better training data and architectures to be more representative and aligned with human values
- The pace of AI progress is constantly surprising experts and hard to predict even a year out
- AI is a general purpose technology that will restructure the foundations of society and the economy
- Integrating blockchain and web3 concepts with AI could help with identity, provenance, value transfer
- The geopolitical impacts of AI will be significant as it enables leapfrogging by developing nations
- Humanity needs better shared stories and values to unite around as AI disrupts traditional structures
- Young people should dive into AI now to help shape its trajectory and have an outsized impact on the future

INSIGHTS:
- AI is a double-edged sword with world-changing positive and negative potential that requires responsible development
- AI's pace of progress and self-improving nature makes its trajectory extremely difficult to predict and control
- AI will be the most powerful and disruptive general purpose technology humanity has ever created
- AI will restructure the economy, society, and geopolitics while also transforming individual lives and capabilities
- Aligning AI systems with human values at scale is an unsolved problem with no clear consensus solution
- Humanity will need shared stories, principles and international coordination to shape the future of AI positively
- The next decade will be a critical inflection point in the development of AI that will shape the long-term future

QUOTES:
- "AI is not going to replace humans, humans with AI will replace humans that don't use AI"
- "This is why this is terrifying to me... we're building something that is incredibly good at recognizing the patterns that we kick off"
- "I think that there is a real shot that we get to the closest things that humans are going to get to a Utopia where things are so plentiful, everything we want is available, we reorient our human psyche not to acquisition but rather emotional contribution"
- "The nature of U.S Society, Western Society will change. I think the biggest adopters and fastest adopters of this will be the global South because it allows them to create value, it allows them to financialize, it allows them to take a big leap forward"
- "I tend to alternate between massive ridiculous hope and oh God what on Earth is going to happen, and all I can do is try and do my bit and hopefully it's going to have a better outcome"

HABITS:
- Thinking long-term about the trajectory and impacts of powerful technologies like AI
- Proactively learning about and engaging with emerging technologies to help shape their development
- Focusing on positive applications of technology to solve major problems and benefit humanity
- Building shared stories, principles and coordination to align technology with human values
- Spreading understanding about the opportunities and risks of AI to a broader audience

FACTS:
- The compute for training AI systems is growing exponentially and enabling rapid jumps in capabilities
- AI is already outperforming humans in many domains like medical diagnosis, strategy games, and creative work
- AI models are not traditional computer programs but compressed statistical representations of data
- AI is becoming easier to use and implement, spreading through society faster than previous technologies
- Techniques like reinforcement learning are used to tune AI systems to follow instructions and avoid negative outputs

REFERENCES:
- Stability AI and their open source AI models for image, audio, video, 3D and other modalities
- Anthropic AI and their work on "constitutional AI" to bake in rules and values into AI systems
- OpenAI and their development of state-of-the-art language models like GPT-4
- DeepMind and their work on AI systems that learn through self-play and reasoning
- Nvidia and their development of AI-optimized computing hardware and software
- The book "The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Hayek
- The concept of "positive and negative liberty" from philosopher Isaiah Berlin
- The idea of a "network state" by Balaji Srinivasan

ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY:
AI is an unprecedented technology that will reshape society in profound ways, requiring responsible development and shared principles to steer it towards beneficial outcomes.

RECOMMENDATIONS:
- Learn about AI and start experimenting with existing tools to build familiarity and identify opportunities
- Think critically about the positive and negative impacts of AI on your life, work, and society
- Advocate for responsible AI development practices that align with human values and benefit everyone
- Support efforts to create shared principles, standards, and coordination to govern the development of AI
- Focus on using AI to solve major problems and enable new possibilities for human flourishing
- Stay informed about the latest developments in AI and engage in discussions about its implications
- Develop skills in areas that are complementary to AI rather than directly automatable
- Prioritize human connection, meaning, and values to maintain wellbeing in a world reshaped by AI
- Support education and reskilling initiatives to help people adapt to a changing economy
- Encourage diverse voices and perspectives in shaping the future of AI to represent all of humanity

AGENT TEAM SUMMARIES:
- Psychology agents focused on the individual and social impacts of AI disruption on meaning, motivation and wellbeing.
- Philosophy agents explored the ethical implications of AI and the need for shared values and human-centric development.
- Technology agents analyzed the technical capabilities, architectures and trajectories of AI systems across domains.
- Economics agents considered the effects of AI on the economy, labor market, globalization and inequality.
- Politics agents discussed the geopolitical impacts of AI, challenges of governance and need for coordination.
- Futurism agents envisioned potential long-term outcomes of advanced AI on humanity and civilization.
- Education agents emphasized the importance of learning about AI and reskilling to adapt to change.
- Business agents identified strategic opportunities and risks for organizations and industries from AI.
- Sociology agents studied the potential changes to social structures, norms, beliefs and behaviors due to AI.
- Creativity agents imagined the possibilities for art, culture, entertainment and human expression augmented by AI.

 

Last edited: Jun 15, 2024

@Amore_de_la_Vida

I say this based on my experience. If the dear mod sees this post as unrelated to this thread, he can delete it, but I only want to help identify the problem and nothing else.
I have come to the conclusion over the years that most people, both those who only listen to music and those who produce music, do not know how to work with notes. Even if you take a look at the posts of some members in here, you will get what I mean implicitly.
I do not know how to solve this problem of people. There are all these different tutorials on YouTube. There are so many educational materials and contents, but it seems that none of them could solve the problem of working with notes. Because if they could, artificial intelligence algorithms would not be welcomed this much. Unfortunately, artificial intelligence does not solve this problem of people too and it only gives results, and no matter how much artificial intelligence is used, the problem of people working with notes still remains.

 

Artificial intelligence is just one tool among other tools. Artificial intelligence is usually used to help solve problems, not understand problems. Human problems must first be understood by natural intelligence, then if needed, artificial intelligence should be used. Suppose you have the best car from one of the car manufacturing companies, will the car manufacturer explain how it made his car? No. That company is only looking to sell its cars, and the less you know about that car, the less trouble it will have for the company.

Artificial intelligence is also created by its developers with the goals that the developers have in mind. Human science up to the time we live in it is very much, but the information resources of artificial intelligence are limited. The developers of artificial intelligence are mostly people who work in the field of computer science and IT, and many other people in other fields of science do not have a role in its development. This itself challenges the future of artificial intelligence.

If I was asked what the current artificial intelligence we deal with does exactly, I would say that it only reduces the time people spend on searching on Google. It means that it reduces the time spent searching and finding answers in Google and does not do any other extraordinary work. Artificial intelligence only slows down the speed of finding the answer. Of course, it should be noted that artificial intelligence often does not give the answer you want because it is not able to understand the real needs of people and cannot replace manual searches.

Currently, artificial intelligence only plays the role of a searcher and explorer.

 

This won't appeal to many here, but I chose this style to create something that to me was different. This is not currently possible using anything other than AI. I did not hit one button and out this came, it was laborious and did in fact need my previous years of skill to coax into being the sound I had envisaged.

 

Said the guy who uses the computer every day with DAWs, plugins and midi controllers...
In the past, dozens of workers with shovels were needed to dig the foundations of a building, now one man with a Caterpillar is enough. Should I be against mechanical excavators? I believe that new technologies free human beings from boring routines and backbreaking work, restoring free time to dedicate to more pleasant activities.

 

It is better to say that this work was not possible without manual intervention, manual dexterity.

 

I tried Suno this week for the first time, and although I think the potential is absolutely amazing, for me, the audio quality is just so low right now.

Everything was so overdriven and distorted with wishy-washy artefacts in the sound and way too much autotune on a lot of the vocals, even just creating instrumentals most of them started off great and then by time it gets to the chorus and the instruments have built up, in comes this horrible overdriven distorted sound which completely ruined the tunes.

The crazy thing was the tunes it created were really good, it's just a such shame about the audio quality of the sound and this crazy distortion. I joined the Discord and a lot of people were commenting the exact same thing more so in the new v3.5. BUT this is all still so new and updates are happening all the time, one we have clear audio this tool will be fantastic, more so for people who don't play instruments or have their own home studios, or just to get some ideas.

I will certainly be keeping my eye on its progress now and then, but I will stick to the good old-fashioned way of actually making music.

I did try Udio as well, and although I didn't get this horrible overdriven distortion sound as much, the overall audio quality seems to be lower the Suno's right now. I did think the sound of the vocals were better than Suno, but I thought Suno's musical elements were better for my liking.

But again both still have absolute huge potential, they really do, and you can have so much fun generating very odd things and getting some great results minus the sound quality.

Just to add I did subscribe (and cancel again ) and blew just over 2000 credits throwing away song after song after song because of this crazy overdriven sound.

Here is an example of what I mean an otherwise really good tune

Epic Orchestral - 1m 20s totally ruined by overdriven and wishy-washy sound it also has this constant FFFffffssssshhhhh sound in like a lot of the song and tunes I created)

https://suno.com/song/7873998f-3953-49f0-8bfa-18cbedb6a5a7

 

Last edited: Jun 15, 2024

It is not right to compare artificial intelligence in music production with building excavation. Excavation is a small part of the construction process, not all of it. At the same time, in the completion stage of a building, people from different specialties participate and without their cooperation, the building will not be completed.
But artificial intelligence platforms are different. Any person with any literacy level can produce music with these platforms. Most of the people who use artificial intelligence look at artificial intelligence as if these people are in heaven and they only need to will so that what they want is in their hands.
They press a few buttons and artificial intelligence provides them with a few patched works and these people are happy that what they wanted was provided to them. Of course, I don't have a problem with artificial intelligence users being happy, they can be as happy as they want, but they have to be content with the results that artificial intelligence gives them and they can't ask for anything more.
Demanding more is formed only by the presence of the artist's mind and consciousness, not by relying on a processing algorithm such as artificial intelligence, which some programmers played a role in developing.