struggling with high frequencies...

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by TruBlood, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. TruBlood

    TruBlood Kapellmeister

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    I am relatively new to producing and mixing and mastering.. But one thing I am noticing is that in a lot of the polished and pro mastered/mixed tracks they are able to really keep the high frequencies intact without killing the listeners ears. How do they do this so well? Tricks ? The only way I can achieve this is by EQ sweep obviously and the MB compression helps but I still feel like I lose some of the highs compared to the pro engineers tracks. Any suggestions for taming the high frequencies without doing a EQ sweep and essentially killing your sound?
     
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  3. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    Console emulation (Nebula, Acqua, etc.) is the best way to cure digital harshness in the HF range in my experience. Either that or analog summing through hardware. Makes the highs buttery smooth!
     
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  4. WillTheWeirdo

    WillTheWeirdo Audiosexual

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    You'll want to severely limit using algorithmic plugins on the top end as they get harsh quickly IMHO. Algo plugs work well in the mid range but up top and down low they loose it, look into the Acustica Audio Acqua's as Digitaldragon suggested, you'll be amazed at the difference at how natural your top end will become. Coming from hardware only AA's technology gave me what hardware did, today I do not miss much hardware..... we work in great times.

    Demo Diamond and you'll understand exactly what we are referring to up top.
     
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  5. TruBlood

    TruBlood Kapellmeister

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    I see there is pink on the sister site.. Will that that be a good place to start or do I need this Acqua one..
     
  6. xbitz

    xbitz Rock Star

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  7. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    The secret is to know which heighs to keep and which to fire. You don't need the same amount of for instance > 6khz in every or even the most sounds. Decide which sounds really need those frequencies and which don't.
    Pros are pros because they tried it for years. If you believe you can mix like a pro in two years or so (like most people do when they start mixing or mastering) you are eihter a genius or wrong. No offense.
     
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  8. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    They turn down 3kHz (where the ear is most sensitive) and turn up the "air-band".
    Naw, Jk.
    There are alot of factors that come into play. Not all sounds are allowed high frequencies in a mix, and those who have might be boosted in their sweetspots. It's about balance (volume/frequency/depth/width/timbre/rhythmic, etc). About not to overlap too much in the highs (or mids or lows).
    Start with removing(filtering) or attenuating(low shelving) the highs in stuff that actually don't need it, and boost (high shelving) for those sounds/instruments that actually need it. Sometimes, when cutting highs, you don't need to boost the others (but you can exaggerate now just to test it).
     
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  9. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    The sister site version of PINK is just an EQ AFAIK. I'd more recommend one of the strips which have EQ as well as Buss/Channel Pre's and Compressor. Compression is better (reacts more like real HW) on the later Aqua engines (IMHO). I'd suggest, as @WillTheWeirdo posted earlier Diamond. Also may be worth checking out Tan, Gold, or Amethyst. They've got full featured Demo versions available that should give you ample time to determine which you prefer. I opted for Gold myself as it fit the current project I'm working with perfectly. My mixes went from meh, OK to wow, that's the sound that was missing.
     
  10. Yeah man.

    All that good stuff and Brainworx bx_refinement.
     
  11. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

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    Suggesting a (expensive) solution with no explanation why or how is not really helpful. It's implied that OP wanted a how.

    This is sorta useufl. An oversimplification, it's band compression of the HFs. Pre-excite if you like.

    "So, for example, when applied to a vocal track, the encoding only slightly enhances high frequencies in passages with louder vocals (strident choruses, for example) but adds much more high-frequency enhancement in passages with quieter vocals. This is why the sound character resulting from this technique is so 'pleasing' to the ear, relative to harmonic-distortion-based enhancement or standard EQ shelving boosts."
     
  12. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    frequency response is independent from transient response. you want to deal with the tiniest aspect of your sound , i call it the "atomic" level.
    to iron out wrinkles in your sound. if you do this it dosent matter how much high frequency response you have .
    but say your sound is "rough" because you adjust the larger part of the sound not the fine grain detail (example putting single compressor and cranking all the settings on a dry track)
    when your sound is rough ( opposite of ironing out the wrinkles) it dont matter if your frtequncy rtesponse is super dark it will be harsh.

    in a nutshell it does not matter how high or low your "highs" are in volume
    what matters is how soft or brittle, how clicky or spongy" those aspects are independent from volume of say 12khz on a eq
    I have a thread on this if you check it out, but the answer to your question is using harmonics to specifically adjust the transients to even them out for each sound equally throughout the frequency response.once you learn how to do that you can eq it anyway you want it wont change the transients.( well, eqing responsibly wouldn't haha)
    you MUST first have studio monitors capable of putting out the level of detail that exists, otherwise yu cannot adjust what you cannot hear ( your playback speakers change the sound)
    just to sum it up EQ has nothing to do with what you are asking about it is about transient response and the harmonic foundation of your tracks.




    https://audiosex.pro/threads/the-se...d-info-techniques-updated-last-comment.30049/

    i will give you a quick way to get rolling.
    you need a computer DAW and plugins to get going,

    get your basic tracks setup.
    put a stack of say 9 different analog modeled plugins of tape, transistor, tube etc. of consoles tape machines tube preamps etc. ( turn off hum modelling on the plugs)
    MAKE SURE you setup to have a volume control that adjusts your volume of the track feeding into this stack so that you lower your volume to -9 db rms or so BEFORE the signal hits the stack of plugins, now A and B listen to how this effects the sound compared to dry. this will get your ears used to hearing how harmonics shape the tonality independent of the eq shape of a track. this is how you control how brittle or sharp or spongy or squishy a sound is you have to control that separate from how much lows or mids or highs the sound has. for example you can have a kick drum that the lows are quieter than the click part yet be powerful and firm and beastly, conversely you could have the same kick drum with weak bass and low end and scratchy click part yet the lows of the sound are 6 times louder than the mids and highs. this is because all those aspects have to do with the transients which are independent from the eq shape of a sound or track or mix.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  13. TruBlood

    TruBlood Kapellmeister

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    Are there certain plugins/settings that are pretty standard for controlling these frequencies.. I will experiment though thank you very much.
     
  14. solo83

    solo83 Platinum Record

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    The biggest secret that the pros don't really care if you know or not. Is a properly treated acoustic environment. I don't give a damn if you have a manley massive passive eq, and a classic LA 2A console. If you're battling uneven frequency responses, on top of reverberation, standing waves, and ringing resonation from high frequency build ups. Your mix is going to sound like smoking hot dog dung.Invest in some bass traps, polyurethane foam and diffusers (which will be the most help in taming harsh high frequencies). Or if you want to save a few coins (because purchasing foam and diffusers is expensive) go the DIY route. You can probably afford all material for under $100 bucks from your local hardware store.
     
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  15. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    hello my friend,
    there certainly is a wide variety like waves bundle,tone boosters,steven slate, flux bundle ,bunch of free ones basically any analog modeling of mixing desk, tape machines, eq and comp units where the plugins change the harmonic overtones i would gather up a variety of tube based tape based transistor based analog modeling .then spend lot of time having your ears get used to how these effect the tone of your track where you A/B the difference of dry track vs the affected track.
    always have a volume control in between the clean track and the plugins in order that you have the ability to control how hard the signal hits the plugs because that controls whether you fine detail of the sound is changed or if it really slamming it and over emphasized

    quickest way to wrap head around it is study old hand-wired guitar tube amplifiers, were the signal chain affects the harmonic distortion in a old hardwired guitar amp you have some main sections that contribute to a smooth syrupy final sound, first your pre-amp and input stage, that feeds a band-pass filter then tube then volume then eq next another tube bandpass volume than a phase inverter bandpass filter then powertubes that amplify then output transformers choke then speakers, each aspect of this signal flow adds harmonics and subtle changes to the signal fed into the amp and the final output is an accumulation ( would be like a stack of say 7 plugins on a track) the final sound has smoothed out the fine grain detail of the audio ,depending how the guitar amp was designed it could have tight or squishy low end it could have brittle top end or soft and crisp but buttery top end, all these aspects are independent from the volume of the lows middle and highs .
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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  16. digitaldragon

    digitaldragon Audiosexual

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    And that's one opinion. Clearly by the ratings on that comment, opinions vary.
    The OP has spoken for themselves and asked the questions that were pertinent to them regarding my comment.
    As for how to use a channel strip... Does that really need explanation? And there is no expense whatsoever demoing one of the mentioned products to see if that is the solution to the problem.
     
  17. TruBlood

    TruBlood Kapellmeister

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    Thank you again so much for your time. Would anyone be able to send me an ADG or something similar so I can listen?
     
  18. TruBlood

    TruBlood Kapellmeister

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    Or put me to a stock preset chain on a plugin already made.. Just to hear the whole chain
     
  19. Kwissbeats

    Kwissbeats Audiosexual

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    Neutron has this auto mix setting that is named up-front midrange,
    it puts a 5 dB boost with a high-shelf. (actually 'feels' and translates like a 7 -10 dB boost on other equalizers)

    I don't know how they did it, but sometimes I use it to see what neutron does with it and then copy that exact frequency.
    when I dial in the numbers on a neve emulation or the studio's lunchbox, the high shelf frequency is always spot on.
    However, I do need to replace neutron most cases, because their eq filters sound harsh (same goes for the rest of neutron)

    This is just a major time saver for me and brings my vocals on the (high) edge (when I need them to be).
    I can boost a lot of high's, after 2 hours of recording, export it and don't regret it the next day when I listen to the rough mixes.
     
  20. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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