All STL and Neural DSP plugins need a 50% resonance boost with custom IR (internal cab disabled).
That's why the first time i used them, i stopped using custom IR and used only integrated cab modeling.

I didn't found anything about this point on manuals ...

If you don't push the resonance with custom IR, you get a totally blanked out sound.
No highs.
Useless, because even treble and presence can't compensate.

Did someone else ear that ?
PS : it seems resonance works on STL ... but not on Neural DSP.
Custom IRs still dark on NDSP whatever setting.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2023

external IR loader is the way to go, cool plugin like Nembrini IR Loader has built in power amp section with 3 style (heavy bottom to flat) with a useful Presence knob that seem to work really well to solve this issue. It works well with all the STL plugins, been using them since release. Can't say much about Neural, not a fan. The power amp section on Nembrini IR loader also useful to make the amp feels bigger sounding, especially those Fenders, Mesa clean channel etc.

STL older Tonality plugins when using other than its matched cab, they are missing the poweramp section, dull the signal real bad and really hard to make it work with custom IRs. They even sound like shit when used with stock IR inside the plugin.

The newer plugins (Lasse Lammert, Josh Middleton) has "Disconnect" selection on the Cab section that solves it when using external Cab plugin (read the manual for more info). I never use internal IR loader in plugin, lack of controls, plus I like atleast 3-4 IRs combo, most plugin internal cab section only allow up to 2.

 

Thanks !

There is a nice explanation here (STL disconnected cab) :
https://guitarandbassplugins.com/reviews/stl-tonality-lasse-lammert/

I stopped using Neural DSP, apart Gojira amp 3 (5150), witch is very close to STL 65+ AmpHub.
Both "go to" amps.

I will take a look at Nembrini IR loader too

 

Melda's MCabinet has 4 resonators to breathe life into IRs.

 

the professional way to go (the way amp sim developers) actually build their IRs sets is with STL Ignite Libra, cause you can load 8 IRs at the same time and dial in a sweet spot, it sounds better the Softube Selection speaker shaper as well as Celestion Speakmix Pro., although I must say the Speaker Mix Pro by Celestion does some magic once you load up to 4 hrs (if your old slow m1 computer can handle the 64 bit app), I contacted them about this issue, they where useless, said they could not help me, not even try something...period, sorry we cant be of help , wtf!!!
So the plugin would not be able to reload presets with 4 IRs after quitting the logic session and patchwork, but from what I remember it had to be the best sounding of all IRs, especially since I blended a few of my own favourites by own hammer and Bogren.

No matter what IR you use, even a single channel clean amp sim, add the free the CHOW Contour aka Klone pedal and the free Hornet Valve plugin, its makes the amp really feel like the real deal..just choose which tubes you want to cook it with., whether its a logic sim or neural DSP...your get the idea why the softube Marshalls, Howard benson STL tones, Toneforge Jeff Loomis, all NDSP and some of the plugin alliance (Freidman b100, SHUR b100, ENGL savage 120) all are amazing.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2023

I tried to use Bogren's Subzero Cab on Neural DSP stuff and wondered all the time why everything sounded like absolute shit lol. Only exception was the Nolly AMP for some reason

 

May be NDSP changed their cab profiling system along Nolly, like STL changed too ?

As a general rule, STL NDSP and now Bogren INTEGRATE cabs into their plugins.
They are not really separable.

May be that's why i see more and more OVER bright IRs on the market, to compensate.

 

Last edited: Sep 19, 2023

That totally depends on your choice of IRs.

STL Amphub ressonance knob will mix a general impedance curve (based on an average of speaker type selected) into the IR, but, you only need this because the stock IRs used to create the cab section of amphub are dark sounding. IC curves will turn the sound tighter and brighter, just what you need for flat sounding IRs. Try the Josh Middleton plugin and will see that the IRs are much better and balanced, just as the Josh Middleton IRs Pack.

NeuralDSP is another story:
Up until Omega granophyre, the cab section in NeuralDSP plugins were made by ML Sound Lab. If you try the packs from this developer you will see that, overall, the IRs sounds dark or flat.

Then, Nolly started making the IRs of Neural's cab section. Try GGD and some plugins made with his IRs, he favors dark IRs too, a little brighter than ML's, but still dark. Petrucci plugin also has dark IRs but that just how Petrucci and Dream Theater sounds. His Tonemission IR pack are the same as the IRs in the plugin.

In the last plugins, Neural changed again, 5by5 studios (Matias Kupiainen and co) built an studio for Neural and so the new IRs are made there. They are much more balanced (check MarkIICSuite IRs).

If you are looking at popular creators such as York Audio and Ownhammer, try the single mic files, the SM57 ones, you will see they have much more clarity than the "MIX" folders. Other than that I can recommend Jeff Dunne Tight and Bright OS 4x12 IRs, it's great.

They are just a matrix of IRs, when you move the mics, it mixes the positions avaiable. Extract the strings from the vst3 binary and you will have all the names of the IRs files there:

 

I'm used to OwnHammer for 1 decade
And i NEVER had to over adjust amp settings (or resonance) according to OH IR ... apart STL and NDSP.

That's why i started this thread, and got very useful infos.

Thanks mates !

 

The thing is, with Neural DSP, Helix Native, STL and many others, you really don't need to adjust resonance as the impedance curves are baked into the amp sections (STL Amphub also changes the IC with the cabinet chosen, which is as real as it gets). At the end of the day, it's just a matter of taste, depending on the IR producer.

How would one do that? I'd love to tinker with the VST contents.

 

How do the Ownhammer IR's compare to the Bogren Digital one's?
I usually use high distortion modern metal tones and bright clean tones.
For some reason the IR's in the Gojira Amp sound extremely bad compared to the Bogren ones
Which Ownhammer Ir Packs would you recommend that are available on sister site ?

 

OwnHammer (r)Evolution Debut Bundle and the new Rock-Box

My fav in (r)Evolution :

MRBW+MRCB for fat amps (recto, 6505 ...)
MRBW M75 for mid amps (SLO100, 5150 EVH (not Peavey) ...)

And of course V30 :
412 MRCB V30
412 TRAD V30
ORNG+TRAD

About Bogren, i'm testing them now.
I already tested a BUNCH of IRs makers and always found OH sounding fuller and balanced.

It is REALLY a matter of taste

And when you found the right maker, you will hear all their releases sound in the same ballpark, even with a completely different cab

 

I built my own collection of IRs and learn that you need 4+ IRs to get a realistic speaker sound.
I got Libra, the titling is crap but its good, the Celestion speaker shaper lets you load 4 IRs as well as the Celestion soeakkermix pro which is the best but takes memory, is bugy and support is the worse making it useless for now as its also not m1 compatible.g

I like Bogren IRs but they are basically Ownhammer tweaked lol

 

OwnHammer are the "fullest" sounding i ever tested.
From there, you can do everything : live, album ... by EQing them.

All others i tested are tweaked to death, like a caricature.
Of course, they may work. But maker already set the signature in stone, so you need to tweak other instrument to fit their IRs.

Not my point of view, as guitarist.

 

Bogren exaggerates their one Knob sim a the best 5150 etc and this fake technology they claim to of invented, well Kazrog had already used the same exact IR technology, doubling the IR..exactly what Celestion speaker mix pro is Ince you have to set to auto with 4 IRs, so I learned you need at least 4 IRs at once

 

You dont need 4 IRs with OwnHammer releases.
Because everything is already blended perfectly.

And thats why i stopped loosing my time with other IRs makers

Take a listen to SDS reviews (he get amazing mixes).
Like this one :

Every other IR maker sound fake and caricatural compared to this.

If you disagree, show me a better IR maker sounding better than this with audio examples, not just words.

Note : as SDS said, he got that sound in seconds.
Not messing around with 4 IRs for an hour ...after spending 10 hours to find the 4 IRs

 

all sims use over 4 or 6 IRs, you may see a few main ones but they are there...Neural DSP, etc used Ownhammer, ML audio, York etc depending on which release they had implemented the same IR loader like Libra if not the same codes..you really do need to avoid depending on the mixed IRs all the time cause they are really one dimensional whether you like what was blended or not, use the ones you like with Libra, The Howard Benson sim and softube IRs where probably own hammer as well as Celestion but they used 4-6 to obtain the main combinations of two via LIBRA or a bus group.,

I put the back of a mesa boogie 4x12 cab cab, the distance, typical Celestion v30s, greenbacks, cream-backs,

Try Libra yourself and blend six, you will see what I mean., you just drag the location of the dot until you find a sweet spot.

​

The next best IR loader is probably the Celestion SpeakerMix Pro but it's a huge bugger, too many issues even on m1, but you blend 4 nicely.
Then the same with the Celestion speaker shaper..
Then you have MIKKOS 2 by ML Sound lab...even their demo is cool and as limited as is it sounds great cause you can find a sweet spot.​

Then you have more which only load two..but they have Neve and API IRs as well, like REDWirze.

 

Would agree on this usually once you have to many IR's it either loses "Focus" or the dynamic feel.
It would be interesting to see how those IR's would sound with an AMP VST instead of a real one.
Usually you get a lot of videos comparing IR's vs real speakers but never Real AMP with IR's vs AMP VST's with IR's

 

@Pedra Sofia
Not with OwnHammer : you only need ONE IR.
A single WAV file.
And so since day one i used their products (more than 10 years ago).

And that's why i stay FAR from any other multi IR / thousand captures solution.

@洋鬼子
About real amp on IRs VS sim on IRs, SDS do a lot ... and he use the same OwnHammer IR ;D

 

no offence but I think you will need whatever you will to get the tone you want, most IRs are mixed, they include speakers, mics, even angle info, some multi IRs as well, having multiple IR loaders helps get the sweet spot way faster with out tweaking knobs in LIBRA