My guess would be Cubase's growth of new users/sales has slowed enough that it's a business concern. Ditching the dongle would let people who are absolutely against dongles now think more about picking up Cubase, would please a lot of their existing userbase so they aren't quite so inconvenienced by the dongle, and should Cubase get broken for real, an influx of non-official users might promote interest in Cubase and revive it a bit in the DAW community.

Anyone who thinks they are "morons" for doing this probably doesn't think they've *really carefully* considered this, probably for a long time now, and have various business cases modelled out in detail.

Of course, Logic did this - they had a non-broken, non-K'd Logic 6/7 for years with the XSkey (Logic 5 PC with the first version of the XSkey was cracked, but after that, they strengthened the protection and no more Ks were done.) And Apple ditched the perfectly working XSkey requirement for LP8. It hasn't hurt Logic's position in the DAW market, in fact there's good arguments that it's helped stimulate growth (which is probably what Steinberg are hoping for).

Of course, the situation with Apple is different to most other DAWs, so it's a "tough compare" (Apple don't rely on Logic for the bulk of their revenue, and don't need to milk it's userbase for as much money as possible, hence the difference in retail and upgrade prices. Together with what you get with Logic, on the Mac platform, it doesn't make Cubase that attractive a proposition unless you specifically want/need Cubase.)

 

That's why I wrote it all in the subjunctive.
I would prefer Cubase without a dongle, but it doesn't prevent me from using it, just as it wouldn't prevent me from making the same decision to buy it again.
It would be a different story for me with a subscription. That is a no-go for me.
(I never updated Adobe master collection after the introduction of the subscription and would never buy it again.)

 

I would like to kindly disagree.

I think - like @hackerz4life - the number of people who would buy Cubase only because of the missing dongle is more or less zero.
But of course Steinberg is completely free to reconsider the system publicly and then discard the idea. Maybe they really think they can catch a few more undecideds.
Steinberg isn't a multi-billion dollar company like Apple (as you said), but a tiny small player by comparison. They will think twice about a decision of such magnitude, because it could bankrupt them - unlike Apple.

Thus I would agree with @clone (...the must be complete morons...) if they (Steinberg) were to take the step towards a software dongle, if there weren't millions of newly sold full-price licenses on the other side. But then it would still be a bet that a responsible manager should think twice and triple about.
But German companies have made so many unbelievable mistakes in recent decades out of pure greed that I dare not rule anything out entirely.

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2021

True. Everyone I know using Cubase is > 40 years old. A lot of them with orchestral/(big) band setups, almost none using it live.

If I were Steinberg, I would also try to break new ground. But not with Cubase = "old wine in new bottles" and in this case older is not better.
I would start to program and design a really fresh and new DAW for today's people. The knowledge for the backend part is there, they desperately need some really good UX designers.

 

So few days ago I bouth Cubase 11 Pro licence, installed 10.5 on my Win7 home rig and had a nightmare with W7 didn't want to recognize the driver for the USB dongle, the problem was actually that for some reason elicencer setup file wasn't delivering the drivers where they should be placed... I read on steinberg forum that some Win7 os's have a security patch that prevents drivers from being installed... So I spent 10 working hours trying it to make it work... So, after 6-7 hours of install-uninstall, swaping USB ports etc what I did, I installed elicencer driver on my W10 laptop rig, traced the drivers down, copied them manually and placed them in appropriate folders on my W7 desktop rig, and that didn't work, then I made a new folder on root C pasted the drivers there and that worked !

Been using Cubase since VST5, liked a lot update to Nuendo and SX1 to Cubase 5 and I was a hard core user, after that I was trying to find a DAW replacement, tried S1 when it came out couldn't get used to, Samplitude couldn't get used to, tried Reaper, got used to it right away since it is so customizable, and I'm a hardcore Reaper fan for few years now...

As I'm only do mixing, over 50% of my clients are still using Cubase, and I was loosing time transferring trackouts (from C5 Air) to Reaper, plus didn't have control over in session effects, had to decide should I bounce dry (and recreate) or wet and be locked etc, and that way I was losing time in that transferring process, so I decided to jump to Cubase Pro, and dongle gave me a headache and made me lose more than a working day... So in that sense, I understand why people hate dongles, and I would be first to throw this dongle shit to a trash can once they get rid of it...Not to mention that this new Cubase has almost has nothing in common with versions Sx1-5, I'm not even enjoying it... Also if they never introduced dongle and if they let the warez scene doing its stuff I would be probably a legit Cubase or Nuendo user long time ago once I started getting revenue...

 

Problem I had wasn't with Cubase, but with USB dongle drivers... Cubase 11 is not Win7 supported, Win7 support is up to Cubase 10.5, which I have installed on my Win7 rig. Eventually, I'll have to update to Win10, but I'm delaying that because I don't have time and nerves installing and tweaking all the necessary software again... This is where Reaper shines, just import config file, and you are good to go with all the themes, actions, settings, fx chains etc...

Overall, I much prefer Reaper to Cubase...

They made so many stupid changes in Cubase over the years... For example "glue tool", back then when an event had a split, gluing it was healing the event, that was super handy when using detect silence and when you want to reconnect few "disconnected" events, right now what it does is putting it in a container, but so is the function "events to part"... So, "healing" function not there any more...

Back then in Cubase 5 you had "deactivate" on/off button, bypass button, and e (edit) button on all plugin slots.. Right now you have only bypass (which doesn't unload cpu) and edit button, and you have to alt-click on bypass spot to deactive plugin, and all that doesn't make the plugin slots to look better at all... Somehow even by removing one button they made it look less clear, even plugin name display was better before.

I mean what looks slicker ?

This




Or this:




There are probably more things that I will get into, but these are right of the bat negative changes

 

Another thing, event overlapping. These hatched areas when zoomed out aren't even noticable, no wonder why majority of people sending me sessions have nasty overlapping in their edits all the time, they don't even see it, I don't even see it until zoomed in, especially when the overlapping area is small, but those are the most prone to clicks if not crosfaded



Comparing to old where you clearly notice the overlap immediately :




And finally no "track color" any more that you access easily from the track:




Right now, you have to go the "Color Menu" which you had on C5 before as well, and which is btw hidden by default when you first time open new Cubase lol....

 

most producers in german hip hop , the ones which record , do all use cubase , only competitor is pro tools.its the mein haus,mein auto , mein boot standart cause you cant flex with reaper in such circles .i guess also workflow standart for them for colaborations .

i think not...there are alot of different user type groups in the DAW marked

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2021

The fact is that most people into audio production know where to get the cracked versions of software, and they are highly unlikely to to just shell out a considerable sum of money on something that might not work for them without demo-img first, and as it stands you can’t do that with the likes of Cubase Pro without buying a dongle.

If you are new to the game and want to try a few different DAWs on for size, you are not going to want to compare S1, Ableton and FL to a deliberately crippled Elements or Artist version. So it won’t get a look in.

If you are going to run a cracked DAW and not buy it even after trying for a year, you are never going to buy it, so the developer isn’t losing a sale because that sale was never going to happen. As was said, people fall in love with their DAWs after they have used them for a while, found their workflow, and generally if they can afford to buy they will, but you can’t fall in love with something if you don’t try it.

Like most programs like this (DAW, NLE, 3D, CAD), people get passionate about what is the “best”, and there was a time when Cubase and PT ruled the roost for certain features. Then competitors got their own version of these features, then their own special tricks, which were then adopted by THEIR competitors. It’s the nature of most things in a marketplace. And now what? There may be the odd feature one DAW has over another, but it’s not a complete feature set, and half the time there is a plug-in to do it. So it’s a more level playing field for the consumer, and as the rest have more less intrusive or restrictive licensing, what protected those “unique features” of Cubase is actually just hurting POTENTIAL sales, and judging from what Steiny said in their press release about new features, maybe it’s also hampering development too??

Look at ilok even, just a protection company. Their business was dongles! How many products are protected by ilok??? And I wonder how many people have / use physical dongle these days compared to the software auth version??

I love Cubase, always have. Why? I know it (well, kind of). How did I get to know it? Cracked version. Bought at version 7 and updated through every version since. Wouldn’t have happened without trying it thanks to H2O and Air. They are modernising and hopefully realising they aren’t the only game in town anymore. V11 was was the first .0.0 most people were happy to install as the number of bugs compared to previous years was sooooo low. People were genuinely freaking out and couldn’t believe it (which is bloody shocking!!!), a new Cubase release that didn’t have some kind of crippling bug or 20! So I hope as a long time user that this is the sign of a return to the top.

————-

Jesus, that was big

That's what she said...

 

Haha, I see. That's of course an argument to buy a DAW I didn't think of.

The easiest way seems to be Steinberg to bring their own cracked Cubase on the marketplace. Better than those badly cracked third party versions...
I used H2O crack for years on my laptop because i hate to carry the eLic around. So sad it's 32bit only

 

Last edited: Apr 20, 2021

Exactly. It looks like the devs and ux designers are working on 17" crt monitors at 1024*768 resolution, and everything is fine.
Fuk, there are elements on the cubase interface, that are just 1 or 2 pixels large. Eg, take the buttons at the top of the plugin/ instrument windows, like the 'load previous/ next presets, : at full HD, one person with normal eyes almost need a magnifying glass to see it, and a ton of precision with the mouse, to try to aim it and click it. At 1440p or 4k, these elements become microscopic !
Does anyone at steinberg ever try their own apps before release ?

 

What I think about the change :
- unlike 10 or 20 years ago, today, music 'users' are ready to accept monthly subscriptions, or rent2buy methods. Spotify, video games (steam, xbox..), netflix..amazon prime... very few users with internet today don't have at least 1 monthly subscription to one product or service. Hey, what is a mobile plan ? A monthly subscription... so, it no longer is a shock or absurd, to pay 10 or + bucks a month, to enjoy some kind of content or product.

Very few daws are hardware-protected. To a 40yo pro who makes a living from his music, makes 150 or 200'000 per year, and is used to spending 1000, 2000 or 5'000 bucks on a new piece of gear, almost every single month, having a hardware dongle attached to his computer with all his licenses his the last of his concerns.
Now, that new 18yo boy who makes beats and raps using his laptop and a mpc, he wants to buy a sequencer to record instruments, several artists, etc, and someone tells him 'hey, Cubase is a fantastic product.. but you always have to connect a special usb key to your computer to run it, and if you break it or lose it, you might lose everything'..., suddenly, the elicenser dongle becomes a problem !

Then, we shouldn't believe steinberg is getting rid of the dongle , because of all users requests, bla bla bla. They are doing it 100% because they somehow need to remove it, for reasons nobody knows. If they truly were doing it 'for the users', they would have removed it at least 10 years ago !...
The elicenser software already is super robust. If a few elicenser plugins such as waldorf largo, etc, got cracked, it s because steinberg don't give 2 fuks about those plugins. Just like they don't give 2 fuks about those anti trial Cubase elements releases.
Cubase pro probably accounts for 95% of all Cubase sales... if a few dudes use a antitrial elements version, there are chances many of those guys might be tempted to buying the pro version.

Then, steinberg knows exactly how many guys will eventually get a cracked Cubase 12 pro release. How many views did the best audioz releases get ? 20'000 ? 30'000 ?

Let's say 10'000 guys will download a cracked c12 pro. Let's say 100'000 new users will finally buy Cubase pro, once they know the dongle is gone. Isn't it worth it , for steinberg ?

With a few tweaks, the software elicenser protection could easily become 1000 times more robust and secure. The guys from Asia who never get mad at audioz/as users and never stop releasing new stuff for more than 1 week might be super smart... but they can't beat a team of at least 50 top senior devs, crypto experts, etc, who know Cubase from inside out.

What could the new copy protection look like ?

People say steinberg won't be doing it.. but in this day and age, it is almost 100% sure steinberg is going to introduce some kind of subscription, along the current paid versions.

Unlike 15-20 years ago, when there only was Cubase and wavelab, today, there is Cubase, wavelab, dorico, halion, groove agent, nuendo, vst connect, hardware interfaces, elements and pro versions, instruments for halion, spectralayers.. and more and more will come. And the number of employees and devs has barely changed.

Steinberg simlply doesn't have enough employees to deliver more versions and more frequently.
Getting rid of 32bit already removed at least 30% of workload. Only releasing 1 Cubase version per year instead of 2 in july and December did remove at least another 20-30% of workload. Because it wasn't enough, Cubase 11 no longer works on win 8.1, let alone win7 = another 20% less workload !

With so many apps to support, + dev, betas, bug fix, new features, helpdesk, etc etc, there simply aren't enough devs to do all the work !
Result = many less releases... and several years between new versions... which mean = less cash
When was the last halion release ? 2 years ago ? 3 ? What about groove agent ? 2 ? 3 years ? And wavelab ? Etc etc ?
We can be sure, if steinberg could make and release a new halion version every single year, and charge another 60 to 100 bucks, instead of waiting 3 years to release an update, they would happily do it. Why not ?

Instead, users might only get a new halion by 2022...or 2023 !... the same with grive agent... and all the other apps.

Such business plan simply isn't sustainable ! Steinberg can't afford to spend 4 years without selling a new halion/etc version.
That's why, imho, the subscription model IS COMING, and will be introduced with halion 7, next september 2021 and next December 21, with cubase pro 12.

Steinberg DESPERATELY NEED to keep the cash coming, 365 days a year, while devs keep coding their stuff, at their normal pace.
And THE ONLY WAY to justify and introduce a new dongle-free copy protection, even if that means risking watching a 'Steinberg Cubase Pro 12 100% cracked by team [we-keep-0-stuff-internal-we-share-everything ] being torrented and released to the masses... it is to sacrifice their beloved and trusted dongle ! Again, they aren't removing the dongle only because many users requested it..but because it SUITS their business plans ! They absolutely don't give 2 phuks about what users may say ! If they truly listened to the users, as they claim, for many years they would have introduced features like resizeable plugins, with at least 100, 150 and 200% interfaces !

So yeah, a few months from now, steinberg will release some official BS, like '...bla bla.. and because we listen to your requests, we are going to get rid of the dongle, and we will move to a much better and flexible licensing system, where the user can, for example, utilize a 2nd license of Cubase on a second computer, by only paying 10 $/€ per month, until a max of 2 licenses for 1 full Cubase pro purchase or rental'...

People will be able to buy regular full versions of Cubase, wavelab, etc... but those who love and prefer paying a monthly subscription, they will be able to do so.

The subscription method will offer many advantages over buying the full version.
For example, you want to buy Cubase pro and be able to install and run Cubase on a 2nd machine , both at the same time ? You can only do it via the subscriptions methods.
You pay 19.99 per month, for Cubase (in 27 to 30 months you pay the full price), and you pay another 10 $/€ per month, for a 2nd license.
Halion ? Only 14.99 per month.
You love those great orchestral libraries, but can't spend 2000 or 3000 bucks on all of them ? Do like eastwest, and only pay 14.90 a month, to access all those great libraries.
Etc etc

That way, steinberg will continue selling regular full versions and updates, to regular users, and will start making tons of cash, with 50k or 100k users paying them some cash, every single month, via the subscriptions.

And how could steinberg protect their dongled apps ? Well, they could introduce some kind of monthly checks : you need to connect your Cubase, etc to the internet, at least once a month. Once synced, the app can run at least 30 days, offline. Aftet the 30 days, we have 1 week to connect it and sync it with the servers. After that week, Cubase can only load projects, but can't save. After 2 weeks without internet, Cubase won't run at all.

Such feature would check licenses, and would control the files integrity = 3 files are different/ hacked ? The installer will download and overwrite the suspect files...

One thing is sure= because stuff like Codesoft got cracked, steinberg won't release a new copy protection unless they know it is super, super powerful, and can't be defeated by some kids, in just 30 minutes.

 

Cubase has scaling but as @2poor2 said even in just fullHD some UI elements are far too small to use in a modern mixed environment like mouse/tablet/touch. The most precise one is the mouse and even with a mouse it's hard to get a 2x2 pixel wide control pressed or whatever.
If you scale it up properly to 4K the same control remains extremely tiny.

 

Absolutely on point. That's my exact thought after having switched to Ableton. I used Cubase since the SX version and while new features are added with every new version, UX wise it's not really getting much better. It's stuck in the early 2000s paradigm, which is not very straightforward and quick. They really need to consider a completely new design from the ground up. But that's actually the void that Studio One is already filling.

 

Add a "funny" rating to the "like" one

 

It wasn’t that long ago I finally watched the US Office, so making up for lost meme / quote time