Spitfire uses the same samples in all of its related libraries since Christ!

Discussion in 'Kontakt' started by jazzzz, Dec 29, 2018.

?

When did they record their samples?

  1. Before Christ

    61.9%
  2. After Christ

    38.1%
  1. waverider

    waverider Kapellmeister

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    I'd love there to be some evidence for this. If they're the same samples, then certainly you can demonstrate this with advanced audio analysis tools, right? Imagine if someone were to provide proof and put it up on YouTube or somewhere else, it would be a pretty big thing.
     
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  2. The Revenant

    The Revenant Producer

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    IMMO, as soon as a sample is processed, it's impossible to demonstrate that it comes from another one (same goes for watermarking): checksum will be different.
    Otherwise, SA would never have taken the risk to recycle... if they did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  3. fiction

    fiction Rock Star

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    To be fair, this is the total amount donated by customers, Sf labs "only" donated the samples.
     
  4. phloopy

    phloopy Audiosexual

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    Exactly.....:wink:

    unfortunately I wasn´t able to get SF earnings accounts from recent years:no::dunno:
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  5. jazzzz

    jazzzz Kapellmeister

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    Spitfire libraries don't sound bad and don't sound the same. They're really good at producing distinct libraries using the same base samples (apart from the scripting issues).
    They just shouldn't state a lie at each release that they recorded it from scratch.
    Their customers would happily keep buying their products even if it's written "a new version of ..." or "new musical experience based on our gold standard, mind-blowing, award-winning samples".

    Don't lie! That's all.
     
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  6. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    Still waiting for the evidence to be demonstrated :dunno:
     
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  7. phloopy

    phloopy Audiosexual

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    Same!
     
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  8. famouslut

    famouslut Audiosexual

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    I think if we (well me) won teh lottery, guess OT "all" would be first samples buy, Spitfire 2nd. Still. Even with the sneaking suspicion that LCO was just samples that the lovely, trustworthy, curated curator Paul Thompson had lying around in his bin! (Or maybe they just amount to his beard trimmings? =) Ditto GRID.
     
  9. The Revenant

    The Revenant Producer

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    True, but it demonstrate their great popularity among professionals - or at least financially well-off hobbyists -, and therefore large cash inflows.

    As long as you can't prove he will never be a customer, he has the right to be suspicious.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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  10. Downlo

    Downlo Kapellmeister

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    Spitfire lying? You using their libraries without paying? Whats worse....:dunno:

    It's good to know, if their samples are all the same. For potential buyers.
    It would be worse if you all bought their products and then found out they were all the same, right?

    My guess, it's cause and affect.:guru: If not, Spitfire wouldn't be the first company trying to make a quick buck.
    The world is full of a**holes. Get over it.
     
  11. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    My guess would be spitfire "lying", at the end of day, OP hasn't answered the question whether he bought it or not and honestly it completely misses the point, same level argument is used to dismiss criticism from people with no academic background as they're viewed as being somehow unworthy of giving valid criticism.

    If that's the case, let's allow the OP room for presenting evidence which would be reproducible with available tools.
    Such as reference sample name, new sample name, method of comparison (null test, ...), spectral analysis, ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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  12. vaiman

    vaiman Producer

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    But didn't they RIP Sable & Mural and package them into 2 new packages. As the original model confused the hell out of everyone?

    So are these findings really new? Spitfire even posted this.
     
  13. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    That's something else.
    Sable vol. 1,2,3 minus Outrigger mic became Chamber Strings
    Mural vol. 1,2,3 minus Outrigger mic became Symphonic Strings

    Interestingly about the O mic - it's still within the nkx structure of CSS and SSS, but it's not called upon from the nki patches. Legacy Sable ensembles can be therefore resaved with sample content from CSS (+respective nkr)
     
  14. vaiman

    vaiman Producer

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    Yeah, and these claims seem to be saying they've reused samples. They did

    "But the most impressive is having used the same sample even to create Symphonic Strings which is supposed to be a larger section. Wow!"
     
  15. The Revenant

    The Revenant Producer

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    If "Sample B" is "Sample A" + audio processing, it's therefore impossible to demonstrate that "Sample B" is coming from "Sample A".
    Null tests and CRC checks will make you think they are different because, in fact, they are different... after "Sample A" processing.
    So even if SA recycle their material, it's impossible to prove it.
    And I can't believe they will be fool enough to use same (or similar) sample name for two similar sounding samples.
     
  16. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    My 2c on this would be that all sample libraries are a big scam.
    You're paying for one shot recordings, an approximation of musicians' performance. Resource intensive ways are used to somehow stitch this performance together. Starting sample, sustain sample, legato interval, legato end, release sample. And it's pretty much never done perfectly.
    On top of that, you're paying just for the right to use the content in only the way designed by the dev. No access to the instrument patches, no access to individual samples, no resells, 2 computers maximum. Dev can have a bad day and revoke your license at any time for any reason, citing some small text in their EULA.
    Pricing scheme is also interesting, all libraries from the same category tend to be priced similarly, almost no-one does something revolutionary and sell it at affordable price.

    IMHO it's better to invest into technologies and scientific research, where composers can define the performance.

    Yes, I don't think any of the samples would null, I just listed the test as an example
     
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  17. Pipotron3000

    Pipotron3000 Rock Star

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    @Andrew On top of that, there are stacks of smaller libs truncated from bigger sampling.
    As i always say, it is called capitalism.

    Market saturation
    Lower profit rate on each product

    Here, it is a little different : they sell FEW copies each time.
    Because only BIG pros will buy thousand bucks banks.
     
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  18. jazzzz

    jazzzz Kapellmeister

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    Guys, you're complicating it too much.
    You don't need special gadget to analyse any digital data, just your ears! If you hear the same background noise for the same specific note in different libraries, appearing during the long note or in the release tail, what more exact evidence do you need?
    Sometimes you won't hear it if it's a library where they didn't use as many samples as in others, like in full strings patches, there you can't have the easy chance to catch it.
    The whole story started with an argument between two commenters on sister site where one thought a library was based on another, and the other commenter stated the other being wrong based on a quote from the developer saying they recorded the new one from scratch.
    I wouldn't bother entering this conversation but I was curious if the "urban legend" was true or not, so I went to check it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
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  19. Andrew

    Andrew AudioSEX Maestro Staff Member

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    I'm at loss as to how background noise proves anything. You mean its amplitude or its shape?
    Edit: I get it, you mean not hiss, but distinct sounds. Interesting, I'll check...
     
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  20. The Revenant

    The Revenant Producer

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    So I suppose you can name some samples used in different libraries but with similar background noise?
    Just curious to check it by myself.
     
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