Sonarworks Plugin - You don't need it ?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by neo lover, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. neo lover

    neo lover Kapellmeister

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    sonarworks.com

    I'm just wondering about the Sonarworks Headphone Calibration plugin -

    If all the plugin does is produce the correct frequency response for the chosen headphone
    why can you not achieve the same result with Fabfilters Q2 say ?

    Here is the response curve for some headphones:

    [​IMG]

    If you insert a Q2 and copy the response curve !
    Job done ?

    Here are all the available today response curves via the zippy link:

    [​IMG]

    http://www106.zippyshare.com/v/RI8Y0fml/file.html

    Here is the curve for a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 250:

    [​IMG]

    And using Logic X with the match EQ running pink noise after leaving Sonarworks -
    The curve is almost identical:

    [​IMG]


    I don't believe I am missing anything but please if am ?

    :woot:
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  3. w4rr1or

    w4rr1or Member

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    I believe it doesn't work that way. It's dynamic eq processing based on the measurements of your room/headphones. I've been using it for 3 months now and it's worth every penny.
     
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  4. neo lover

    neo lover Kapellmeister

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    I don't not understand what you mean ?
    We already have the EQ curves ?
    Dynamic EQ -

    Are you just guessing ?

    Because that makes little sense to me ?
     
  5. AwDee.0

    AwDee.0 Kapellmeister

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    fuck it, do what you do...
     
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  6. Army of Ninjas

    Army of Ninjas Rock Star

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    I would assume there is some phase correction gong on in the plugin too. But with cans, these curves should get you closer than nothing. Have you compared using one of these with a regular eq with the real thing? If so, how are the results?
     
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  7. Scarlet Pimpernell

    Scarlet Pimpernell Noisemaker

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    Suprisingly, once the output gain is matched properly it sounds pretty much identical on my Audio Technical M50x :woot: via Waves Q Clone.

    I just Waves Q-Cloned all the current headphone profiles as attached (ignore the Audio-Technica M20x Average.swhp preset... the other version of it is OK :wink:).
    Note that only the left channel was sampled (...Q clone applies the curves on both channels for stereo output) that the output will need matching.

    Sonarworks Q Clone Headphone Setups:
    http://www81.zippyshare.com/v/rrBO8ahE/file.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  8. Unirorm

    Unirorm Ultrasonic

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    I think with proQ2 and linear mode you are good to go.
    If you find any individual VModa M100 drop it!
    You actually gave me a great idea with this.
    My m100 are not listed in SW, the only one i found is from Audussey for iOS(it makes the cans to sound amaing). I tried to get into app and extract the curves. no luck...
    Your method i think will do it! Thanks
     
  9. Unirorm

    Unirorm Ultrasonic

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    You think NebulaMan for Nebula will do any difference? Since it's somehow use a better capturing technology... just saying :)
     
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  10. groove

    groove Member

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    No it's not just an eq curve it's the minimal part of .... Most important of this good app is it's room simulation for headphones it's not possible to simulate that with eq ....
     
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  11. Amirious

    Amirious Producer

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    Well, just because you see an EQ curve on the front page doesn't mean that's all it does.
    There's a lot happening underneath.

    As @Army of Ninjas has noted, phase correction is one of them. Other things involved in the process are: auto gain, a hybrid Linear Phase EQ, simulating a certain room + a specific monitors, distance from your head and your head shape. Add this to all individual profiles created by test a bunch of popular headphone models.

    There is a lot going on really. obviously they aren't wrapping a simple EQ behind a fancy GUI. I suggest you to read more about this stuff as there are a lot of articles and discussions on forums like gearslutz on this topic.
    Hint: start with HRTF methods, headphone mixing simulation, and cross-talk cancellation for binaural audio playback

    Try to test similar plugins like: ToneBoosters Isone (my favorite), 112db Redline Monitor, HeelAudio MixRef, Spatial Audio
    And make sure to check out Waves new product: Nx Head Tracker (I am not a fan of Waves personally)

    I got interesting in researching on this subject some months ago cause I tend to use headphones more and am more comfortable mixing with it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
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  12. neo lover

    neo lover Kapellmeister

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    I've listened to the results and I can hear virtually no differnce -
    It works -
    I think all that is going on is an eq curve regardless of what the marketing campaign may say -
    Try it yourself and see -
    Download the demo from their site to get all the curves --- ​
     
  13. groove

    groove Member

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    if you don't heard difference you have a big ear problem
     
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  14. Unirorm

    Unirorm Ultrasonic

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    I did a capture for V-Moda m100, with the above technique.
    Both pink noises, before and after Audyssey Player. to somehow calibrate the signal path instead of run the generator straight from DAW.
    Being able to find a solution for those cans all over net, everything was half-measures,
    all i can say is that the cans are just playing music now, the muddiness gone and i am thankful to neo lover.
    If you have a pair of those, please try it and let me know. If you know a friend that has them send it to him.

    ProQ2 preset here: http://www112.zippyshare.com/v/4rSEJvEY/file.html
     
  15. ampworks

    ampworks Ultrasonic

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    You Rock!. Man that really does work! it sounds the same as when i demoed the software months back, can you tell me who you cloned them, i don't understand this q clone eq
     
  16. groove

    groove Member

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    It's not true not sound the same only eq part sound the same ... Missing dynamic and room part and it's the most important....
     
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  17. Scarlet Pimpernell

    Scarlet Pimpernell Noisemaker

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    Yep, surprised me too that it worked as it good as it does :wink:

    Basically, Q Clone works out the frequency response difference between input and output of an insert chain and produces a replicable curve of that insert chain. In this case I setup Sonarworks as an insert and sampled the left channel of each heaphone channel. (When applied to a stereo signal Q Clone applies the same curve to both the left and right channel.)

    To set it up just put 1 mono instance of Waves Q Capture on an audio channel and ensure that channel inputs are are routed to its outputs in a loop. Insert the plug in you want to capture on the same channel and an instance of Q Clone on the master. Should then be a case of capturing the response curve in Q Clone after seeing Q Capture Receiving and Transmitting.

    Here's the manual with some setups for various DAWs:
    http://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugins/q-clone.pdf
     
  18. Army of Ninjas

    Army of Ninjas Rock Star

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    Does the software include a profile for the regular Audio Technica M40 headphones? I know there is an X series one. But I only have the older ones. I'd love to try out a Q Clone setting with the cans and let you know the results. Very interested in this particular idea as I think that when combined with crossbleed between the cups (like in Isone, Redline Monitor, etc) it could produce some good results. Maybe not perfect. But very possibly superior to nothing at all. Great post neo lover. :mates:
     
  19. neo lover

    neo lover Kapellmeister

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    ? Have you listened to the actual software running ?
    I have - No dynamics - No Room simulation going on -
    The software just tries to even out the response of your headphones - It does not try to correct other issues !

    Down load the demo from the site and try it yourself ?
     
  20. groove

    groove Member

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    i have legit sonar works one .... Sonar works and waves NX together are a serious deal nothing to compare with your little eq shape on Q clone
     
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  21. neo lover

    neo lover Kapellmeister

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    So - You haven't tried it then -

    Well you use your Sonarworks and your Waves NX together for the serious deal !​
     
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