Hi Guys

I need to understand how sonar works with these midi/instruments tracks, and why some things don't work ...
With cubase or studio one 2 it was so easy, fast and logic
But I am interested in sonar x2, so i am trying again x1 but i would like to know how to fix the problem of audio outputs

This is the example :

I want to load 3 instruments (patches) with kontakt 5

I know two methods :

1)an instrument track for each patch
Meaning I have to open 3 kontakt with the option " simple instrument track"



the Kontakt setting would be :
One Kontakt for patch1/output st.1/channel [A]1
One Kontakt for patch2/output st.1/channel [A]1
One Kontakt for patch3/output st.1/channel [A]1



it's not very good for the memory I guess ...
but at least we have one audio output for each instrument

2) audio track "hybrid" for each patch
Before I open kontakt , I select the option "all synth audio outputs stereo"



then Sonar creates many special tracks
If I choose kontakt8out , I will have 4 stereo tracks
If I choose kontakt16out, I will have 8 stereo tracks
If I choose kontakt, I will have 32 stereo tracks

I need only 3 instruments (patches) so I open kontakt8out
In kontakt, i configure 3 outputs : st.1 (1/2) st.2 (3.4) st.3 (5/6)



And for each track , I configure the input ( st1 for patch 1, st2 for patch 2, st3 for patch 3 )

the sound works good for each track, each track has its own audio output (slider)
but impossible to play a midi event yet ( no record button , the track is an audio track with kontakt as input)

To be able to compose, I add one midi track for each patch... that's boring now
For each midi track, i select the midi channel ( channel 1 for patch1 , channel 2 for patch2, channel 3 for patch 3)
and now I can record events and compose..



so I have to hide the 3 audio tracks coz they are useless without events
and the opposite, I have to hide the 3 midi strips in the console coz useless too
we keep audio strips to be able to add effets , mastering or else ...
that sucks

Am I doing something wrong?
any simple methods ??

I wanted to create manually the instrument track with the "make instrument track" but it doesn't work ..
I have read it's impossible to do it if the kontakt has loaded different patches already.

I hope i am clear, thanks

 

@ Toshfox,

Perfect... but what do you want to get exactly with these 3 Kontakt 'Instruments' ?
I mean, do you want that these 3 'Instruments' play the same 'MIDI' Events at the same time, thus leading at 3 sounds (layered sounds) playing the same 'MIDI' Events simultaneously (but each one sent to different audio outputs), or that each one of these 3 'Instruments' may be therefore totally independent with all your 'MIDI' stuff, thus playing different 'MIDI' Events at the same time (e.g. 'Instrument 1' playing the Chords, 'Instrument 2' playing the Bass Line, 'Instrument 3' playing the Melody or Lead), or not necessarily playing simultaneously, but each one handling its own 'MIDI' Events...

 

Studio 555, first thank u for taking time to read me

It would be the second part of your post.
Example I want to compose with violins, choir and drums
each track won't get the same midi events
and each track won't get the same volume, the same eq effects..
SO i do need one audio output for each track/instruments
but i want to load all these instruments with 1 kontakt in the vst rack

 

@ Toshfox,

So here we go...

You'll find below some images and suggestions. With the hope that some will match what you're looking for...

First suggestion :

Simply set a different 'MIDI' Channel for each of your used 'Instruments'. This way, each Instrument will receive (and record) all the 'MIDI' Events played with your External 'MIDI Controller' (Keyboard,... ) on its own 'MIDI' Channel, thus played (recorded) independently of each others. Within your DAW (Sonar X2), you must also make the corresponding adjustments as well, of course !
As you certainly use a recent 'MIDI Controller' (Keyboard,... ), you can then select the desired 'MIDI' Channel(s) (1 --> 16). Simply select the desired one when you want to play (or record) a specific Instrument solely...

As an example and and according to your wishes :

- Violins --> MIDI Channel 1 (thus only playable and recorded when the MIDI Channel 1 is selected).
- Choirs --> MIDI Channel 2 (thus only playable and recorded when the MIDI Channel 2 is selected).
- Drums --> MIDI Channel 3 (or 10). I write '10', because the MIDI Channel 10 is the standard MIDI Channel used for the Drums by the majority of the MIDI Manufacturers, therefore strongly advised for further compatibility with others MIDI Players and MIDI gears. *yes*



Now, we go to the 'Audio' routings and suggestions...




I don't know if you have noticed that this new 'Kontakt 5' version has some BIG enhancements and add-ons compared to previous versions. One of them is the extended 'Group Bus' features.

Thanks to this extended 'Group Bus' feature, you can now make several audio treatments directly within 'Kontakt' before to output the whole (or the desired parts) for further processings, either within your DAWs, or even through external Hardware Units...

As you can see in the above image, I routed the first Instrument to 'Bus 1'. I simply added an effect (Chorus) to show you that you can add the desired effects, filters,... included within 'Kontakt' for each Bus independently (as you'll see in the next image). You can also see that the sound passes through this 'Bus 1' (independently of the others loaded Instruments, of course !).

As I wrote it in white inside the 'Channel Routing' window, if you're lucky to have an Audio Interface with multiple Inputs & Outputs, you can then make extensive and complex routing schemes. Unfortunately, I done these snapshots with the only available 'single' Audio Interface (2 Inputs - 2 Outputs) that is installed within the PC used...




Here you can see that I use the same method as previously done, but this time I routed the second Instrument to the 'Bus 2', thus the audio passes through the Bus 2 solely, then it's processed by a different effects configuration.
You can then use this method for all your desired used Instruments, each one with its own effects,... configurations and proper settings, all routed to their own 'Bus'. Of course, you can also omit the internal effects,... of 'Kontakt' if you dislike them and use those of your DAWs (Sonar X2,... ), or those of external Hardware Units as stated previously...

You can also noticed that this second Instrument is set to the 'MIDI Channel 2' solely, thus it can only play (record) the 'MIDI Events' received by your external 'MIDI Controller' that is also set to send 'MIDI' Events through its 'MIDI Channel 2' solely (as explained in the first part of my comment --> MIDI setup suggestion).



I hope that all these suggestions can help you in some way !

 

wow thanks..
I will try it ,
but before starting, two questions after a first reading
1) what "insert soft synth options" do I select? the boxes to check



2) all patches are on st.1 ? or do i create other audio outputs in kontakt
( coz your second screenshot shows another output called like the patch jupiter80)

really thank u for your time , i appreciate