[SOLVED] - A serious issue with PDC in Studio One 5.1

Discussion in 'Software' started by Smoove Stack, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Smoove Stack

    Smoove Stack Member

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    I am very disappointed with the last update of this DAW. Almost 20% of my plugins, including some from Eventide, Nebula Audio, among others, have a terrible problem regarding PDC (Plug in delay compensation). Is anyone else going through this? In the previous versions everything was working perfectly for me. Peace! :)
     
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  3. quadcore64

    quadcore64 Rock Star

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    Not knowing your hardware/software setup, a few questions come to mind.

    Are your audio tracks & session rate the same (16bit/441kHz, 24bit/48kHz etc..)?
    In the audio settings, how is 'dropout protection' set?

    The sweet spot on my current system is;
    ASIO buffer size of 32 or 64
    24bit/48kHz, 24bit 96kHz or 24bit/192kHz

    On a older Dell N5010 laptop the sweet spot is firm at 16bit/44.1kHz. Dell chose cheaper Realtek option where Lenovo trends toward medium to high end audio.

    Personally thinking of using S1 as main option over Pro Tools now.
     
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  4. Moleman

    Moleman Producer

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    hi
    im a long time Studio one user, since v2.x , also i do mostly use UAD and top end native plugins. what is the plug in delay compensation ? how and where do you feel it and experience it? , in your song sessions , how many audio tracks and virtual tracks do you have? how many buses and how many vst plugin instanaces do you have? what type of audio card you have? i just want to understand... what is this kind of annoyance?
    so far, at my end, the only annoyance i have experienced is deliberately unplayable audio clips (recorded audio tracks such as guitar and or voice), after i hanged some plugins on them, after some point they just refused to be audible during playback.. i have also reported that problem to the official studio one forums, even since v4.x nobody was able to fix neither explain the cause of it, also there was a few other users who reported the exact same issue as me.. is that the PDC?????
     
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  5. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    I agree. You should give us more details.
    I'd say it's not the same. Roughly speaking PDC is the synchronization of different tracks because different number and kind of plugins causes different delays (kind of "added latency").
    So if you have a CPU hog Nebula plugin that adds 5ms delay on the first track the DAW must delay the second track 5ms to stay synced.
     
  6. Moleman

    Moleman Producer

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  7. Smoove Stack

    Smoove Stack Member

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    Thanks for the feedback guys!. Regardless of the settings for bit depth and sample rate the problem only happens to me with the latest r3r version of S.1. The previous version was working flowsly. As a rule I used the same audio settings, the same plugins as well in both versions. In general, plugins that add more latency, cause this problem. The track in which the plugins are inserted, are very out of sync in relation to the others. Here are some vsts actually causing this issue : Newfangled Punctuate, Nebula 3, Acustica TAN Compressor, NUgen Monofilter and Fab Filter Q.3 (the latter two in Linear Phase mode - which add more latency to the system). I tried to change the audio interface. I have a few options available, but they all presented the same problem: 1) Focusrite 8i6; 2) M-Audio Fast Track PRO; 3) M-Audio Ozonic Firewire; 4) ..and even my Traktor Kontrol S4. (any buffer adjustment does not solve the problem). [all in ASIO Mode] :(:sad::excl:
    Unfortunately, unlike Reaper and some other daws, S1 has no adjustments to try to get around this issue. Here's what the S1 manual shows about PDC:

    Automatic Plug-In Delay Compensation

    Some plug-in effects inherently have some delay, or latency. It takes a certain amount of time for these plug-ins to process the audio routed to them, which means the resulting output audio is slightly delayed. This especially applies to dynamics processor plug-ins that feature a look-ahead function, such as the included Compressor.

    In Studio One, this delay is managed with plug-in delay compensation through the entire audio path. There are no settings to manage, as this feature is completely automatic. The sync and timing of every Audio Channel in your Song are automatically maintained, no matter what processing is being used.

    The current total plug-in delay time is displayed in the left-side Transport, below the current sample rate.

    _____________________________________________________ ........
    I was having a relatively positive experience with Studio ONE. But after this unexpected bug that shouldn't happen on a DAW, as it is a very basic function of a system that promises to allocate processors and keep all tracks in sync, maybe I will go back to Reaper and I never want to see Presonus again * try before you buy all the way:wink:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  8. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    Did you try with vst2 plugins or vst3?
    In the past I got sometimes some PDC issues with vst3 plugins with S1 v3.
     
  9. Blanco

    Blanco Noisemaker

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    Studio One 5.1 Piece of shit
    part1


    part2
     
  10. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    Ok,I did a few tests with the plugins you have mentionned in you post #6 with their vst3 versions,and no PDC issue on my setup with S1 v5.1.

    If I were you I would check your graphics drivers,and perhaps try to disable the 'High DPI' option in the Settings menu>General.
     
  11. Blanco

    Blanco Noisemaker

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    5.1 - Completely f***ed up
     
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  12. Smoove Stack

    Smoove Stack Member

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    Makes sense. I decided to install only the VST3 version whenever available. However, in the case of Nebula3, it is VST2 (there is no VST3 version)
     
  13. Blanco

    Blanco Noisemaker

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    Screenshot 2020-10-27 at 21.44.22.png
     
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  14. Smoove Stack

    Smoove Stack Member

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    Just to mention that I am using the plugins in a chain of approximately 7 plugins, the first being a VSTi. As suggested by you, I disabled high DPI mode, but the problem persists. I believe it has nothing to do with my GPU drivers (Radeon RX 560), as it worked perfectly with the previous version of the S1. Another mention: 70% of my tracks have a side chain somewhere in the chain.. anyways, thanks you very much for your input... maybe, in my case, next update should solve my problem here.:wink::bow:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  15. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    I managed to add all my plugins that add the worse latency,oversampling,look ahead,linear phase,I had up to 1475 ms of reported latency,and everything was synced.
    i added side chains,long plugin chains,messed vst2 with vst3 and no problem of PDC on my system.

    So far the fact that your drivers may be ok for some other DAWs doesn't mean they are ok for this version of S1.I don't know anything in computer engineering,maybe S1 use some specific,modern protocols,such as last openGl and so on.

    Also many audio drivers installed on your system might be an issue.Try at least to desactivate those that you don't use in the Windows device manager for a test.
     
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  16. Smoove Stack

    Smoove Stack Member

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    Thank you very much again for the reply. I finally discovered the problem. As I said, the track that presented delay have a VSTi with some high latency effects on the chain . The synthesizer of this track was being triggered via MIDI through an adjacent track, in which Scaler 2 was inserted. As soon as I converted Scaler Chords to "MIDI Notes" and inserted them effectively in the track that had the delay issue, the problem was solved. Something related to the delay of MIDI notes sent by Scaler 2 between tracks! One way to override it without converting Scaler to MIDI ,and thus keeping Scaler over there is by using the MIDI delay on inspector. Anyway, it's a bug that can be fixed dear Presonus (same in all 5x versions - already tested)
    pdc2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  17. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    I don't know if it's a S1 bug or a Scaler bug...Nice to know everything is fine now,anyway.:wink:

    Yes track delay may be the ultimate solution to compensate that.
    It seems S1 has some problems with arpeggiators and some midi effects.I noticed some bugs with XFer Ctuhlu and with the Uhe hive's arpeggiator in the past.
     
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  18. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Indeed, very interesting. Perhaps Presonus is not working properly in MIDI effects latency because often is negligible?
     
  19. Blue

    Blue Audiosexual

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    Yeah,who knows...If the latency equals the track delay (989.00ms!) of the screenshot posted by @Smoove Stack,it's not negligible though!:rofl:
     
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  20. Smoove Stack

    Smoove Stack Member

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    LoL !! I set 989 ms just to not scare anyone. Actually 1000ms (max) on this track, plus - 489ms on source midi track (Scaler Bass in this case)
     
  21. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

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    Wow, holy Molly... Ok ok.. I'll just stress the "often" thing :rofl:
     
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