Solo woowinds

Discussion in 'Software' started by Pablo Cordal, Jun 21, 2022.

  1. twoheart

    twoheart Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    996
    Location:
    Share many
    As I said, oc you can edit the MiDi information by hand, if you like.
    For Cubase you can paint midi/import notes and then edit Noteexpressions (CC values for diff. controllers) and it looks like this:
    BC+Keyboard.jpg
     
  2. orbitbooster

    orbitbooster Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    351
    Doable, maybe, but IMO not practical at all. I explain my doubts.
    SWAM requires at least mandatory CC MIDI 11, expression (let's say a relative value of velocity), if you don't provide it, it won't work.
    You can trick it moving manually expression slider and it wil react, though it will sound static, like a sample, basically it was studied to be played live with controllers aid, and (you) being a guitarist could provide, by MIDI converter, pitch plus (maybe, depending on the converter) vibrato and velocity.
    Then a solution would be a very powerful multiple pedal CC MIDI controller, but how many params can you control in real (same) time? If you stand up, 1 continuous pedal (CC 11), if you sit, 2 (let's say bow or blow pressure), and that should be enough to have an acceptable mastering of the instrument, considering the above pitch, velocity and vibrato (BTW if you slide on the guitar string will it slide the MIDI pitch too or wil jump to a discrete MIDI note value? I don't have a clue).
    Vibrato and expression, but as stated above, I don't know how MIDI converter react to a guitar slide, if continuous like pitch wheel, you have vibrato, if not...
    Right, but SWAM is a beast of its own, not like a normal monophonic synth, you must provide CC 11 expression at least. Then you can overlay any MIDI CC in DAW post.
    The best controller would be Roli Seabord. If not, at least multiple XY cotrollers, even with Android/Apple) TouchOSC or things like that.
    But you'e a guitarist, so I would stay with MIDI converter an MIDI pedals.

    Edit: I didn't mention breath controller, it's an option, but I personally never use it, it's tiring and difficult to setup (mine it was, at least).
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  3. twoheart

    twoheart Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    996
    Location:
    Share many
    The TEC USB breath controllers I mentioned before are extremely easy to set up. Actually you don't need to set up anything on PC (IDK Mac) but only control the air flow by a simple valve an on the let me call it "support frame".

    (but of course there is a utility to fiddle myself to death if i will :rofl:)

    I'm not a TEC salesperson btw ;) , but the controller is really fun.
     
  4. orbitbooster

    orbitbooster Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    351
    I'm sure, but TEC is a recent product. I have the Yamaha BC2 (1992 or so), it has 2 trimmers to calibrate, you have to enable and adjust MIDI BC parameter within SY-99, the results were so disappointing that I just archived it, I'm sure I did something wrong. Plus it made my tonsils hurt.
    Speaking of SWAM Sax I found this clip with I guess the son of BC2, the BC3, results are pretty good.


    Edit:
    See this comment from the author:
     
  5. BlackHaze1986

    BlackHaze1986 Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    81
    Best SWAM Libary for me are the Saxophones Never seen something similar for the other Instruments there are way better Kontakt Libaries. For Woodwinds have a look @ The Metropolis Kontakt Libaries or Spitfire Woodwinds. For Ethnic Music take a look @ Taqsim Solo.
     
  6. Ryck

    Ryck Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2022
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    211
    @Pablo Cordal @twoheart

    I have a steering wheel with an old pedal that I used to play racing games.
    The other time I used this as a controller for expression and vibrato with the Swam instruments. And yes, it is not the same as writing the expressions in midi than playing live, although it should not be the same as the midi devices where you blow, I imagine it is more real. because it is not the same to blow as if you were playing a wind instrument than to step on a brake or an accelerator of a steering wheel. But, first of all, it can be useful, if you have any device like these in your house, it is configured with the daw
     
  7. Pablo Cordal

    Pablo Cordal Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    Thank you guys for all the comments. Of the commented options, I one I like the most is leap motion (even more than midi guitar & midi pedals) for both strings and winds. BUT (and it's a big BUT) it will be useful for me if I can introduce or load midi info first and then use SWAM instruments with leap motion to add articulation and stuff. The big question is: these two steps, can be done separately?

    I guess there must be a way since you're introducing info in two different instruments: the keyboard on one hand and leap motion in the other. I guess there must be a way of telling your DAW: "get the info of the keyboard from this channel (already recorded) and the articulations from what I'm doing now in leap motion"
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
  8. Moogerfooger

    Moogerfooger Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    636
    I own a leap motion and TEC breather controller 2… neither of those will help inputing notes in time… The leap is great for bow changes and position & I don’t even use it for horns & woodwinds. The TEC is amazing for all things horn & woodwind related.. Whatever you are the most comfortable inputing notes in time USE THAT for the bulk of your MIDI work… Learning to use the breath controller and LEAP are what take a performance from good to great - almost real when set in a mix.
     
  9. orbitbooster

    orbitbooster Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    351
    Yes, of course. You can overlay on MIDI notes any CC controls or toggle or anything you want.
    Remember to add at the first input along MIDI notes, CC11, at least a small change, you better do it even a little before the first note or you won't hear the instrument.
     
  10. Pablo Cordal

    Pablo Cordal Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    Great!
    I don't know what CC11 is. By now I just write music in Frescobaldi (Lilypond), Pizzicato or Musescore. I'm in the process of learning how to move that midi information into a daw and replace intruments and expression to make it sound better. In the future I'll test another workflows.

    So, when I import midi into the daw from these programs, will I have any problem with CC11? I don't know what this is
     
  11. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Messages:
    1,236
    Likes Received:
    969
    CC = Midi Control Codes.
    You'll probably have LESS problem with these in your DAW than in the Notation Programs.
    Probably worth exploring whatever 'Events List' editor is available in your DAW, which sometimes provides a more useful (or supplementary) view of Control Codes.
     
  12. Pablo Cordal

    Pablo Cordal Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    Yes I think so. More MIDI utilities in the daw compared with none or few in those programs.

    So you guys can confirm that the workflow musescore/frescobaldi/pizzicato ----- (MIDI) ----> daw (instruments replacement/leap motion/breath control) is doable? I think this is my best option (at least when I write for orchestra)

    Another workflow for orchestra would be using (for instance, there are other like hexachords orb, etc) remidi/scaler 2 ----MIDI -> (instruments replacement/leap motion/breath control), but in the end it's very similar to the other one, since the output of the composing process is MIDI
     
  13. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2019
    Messages:
    1,236
    Likes Received:
    969
    Best Answer
    I thought your question was settled earlier by the several nice in-depth comments you got from people describing their preferred MIDI controllers.
    But assuming it's just a final confirmation you're after - I'd vote "yes - your workflow sketch looks unproblematic"

    Another way to summarise it might be this...
    The instrument in your DAW doing the rendering of your MIDI notes will also be responding to MIDI events generated by the Control Codes (CCs). The instrument will not know or care about where or how those CC events are being generated - just as long as they are arriving on the appropriate MIDI channel.
    - Maybe the CCs are embedded in the original MIDI files exported from your notation program.
    - Maybe the CCs are being generated by you now in real time using your controller(s)
    - Maybe the CCs are embedded in a separate MIDI track that you recorded in your DAW
    a record of what you just did with your controller(s)

    From the rendering instrument's point of view all three of the above are the same - just a stream of CC events.
     
  14. Pablo Cordal

    Pablo Cordal Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    Yes, that's what I needed, thank you!
    Now it's clear for me. Thanks for the explanation!
     
  15. jazzzz

    jazzzz Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    191
    I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Orchestral Tools - Berlin Woodwinds.
    If not the physically modeled SWAM (Audio Modeling) that is more customizable (and therefore more complicated to achieve realistic sound), I guess the best sounding solo woodwind library is by OT.
    Except for live performing. As most sample libraries with sophisticated legato transition have an inevitable delay.
     
  16. Pablo Cordal

    Pablo Cordal Ultrasonic

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2022
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    Thanks everyone for all the information. I think I need some time to digest all new proposals.
    I hope I don't die of indigestion :wink::wink:
     
  17. Ryck

    Ryck Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2022
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    211
    @Pablo Cordal

    I saw this video yesterday and I forgot to tell you. Here it says how to play the Swam instruments without the midi controller. Using midi guitar, but with a specific setting so you don't have to move the speed knob to get swam on. Check

     
  18. orbitbooster

    orbitbooster Rock Star

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    351
    That clip should have been posted much before cause it asnwers a lot, and also clears out some doubt I had on string slide.

    At the same time it opened another question: while it is possible to map almost any CC params, what the hell is After Touch on guitars? I mean, how can you physically perform it?
     
  19. Ryck

    Ryck Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2022
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    211

    I found it yesterday by chance. Because I was looking for how to use my guitar as a midi controller, not for musical notes, but to use it as a modulator for midi effects (speed, expression). And in that search, I found this video and I remembered this thread.
    I haven't tried it yet, download the video to see it later.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Solo woowinds Forum Date
Muted and Double Tongue articulations of CSB Solo Tuba are greyed out? Kontakt Jun 9, 2022
Review: Contemporary Soloists Viola by Sonixinema Software Reviews and Tutorials May 4, 2022
Any Soloution for HQ GM (General Midi) in 2022 Software Feb 27, 2022
Best Service Chris Hein Horns 4 Solo Sax (Demo Mode) Fix? Software Reviews and Tutorials Feb 14, 2022
Violin library or vsti to create complex solo passages Software Jan 29, 2022
Loading...