Speaking of preserving pick attack, I hope everyone is using Airwindow's Guitar Conditioner with all ampsims?
http://www.airwindows.com/guitar-conditioner/

 

No drama whatsoever. No ignore list, also. Wish you the best.

 

You do know Nasty is not like Janet Jackson Nasty right?
You have almost a 1:1 ratio of Agree to Nasty given.......

 

@MMJ2017 if your problem is "paper cone" sound, yes you can say (like me) that you hear the limit of "Impulse Responses" ;)
There is NO DYNAMIC in regular Impulse Responses. Even the best, like OwnHammer IR.
IR is flawed, due to total lack of dynamic captured.

Metal and big rock ppl are aware of this problem since the beginning, because they use a lot of palm mutes.
speaker compression and crunch impact A LOT

To understand the point, take a simple example : take an amp output, and use a simple IR.
Lower the amp output by 6 dB, and raise IR output by 6 dB : same sound :D

Now do the same with Nebula or a real cab...
Thats' why, in the studio, i use OwnHammer Nebula cabs (and only regular IR for zero delay tracking).

Fractal Audio (and others) developed some "tricks" to recreate dynamic on IR. Probably Line 6 too...

If i go again on scene, i would probably output any good regular modeler (i love Tonelabs) in an amp and mike it. Preferably tube power amp, but that's not so mandatory : keyboard amps, PA amps and such works too.

To get that "air", dynamic and definition. Even if IR "tricks" works more and more :D
Cab sim was the last missing link, and it is better and better.

PS : a few ppl (like Vox with Valvetronix/Tonelab) nailed power amp compression. Combine it with Nebula OwnHammer cabs and you get an impressive sound (i do it)...

 

when i do have to do sims nebula is only way to go ( its lot better but still not close to the real thing!) but you can get good results with it.

 

Too many years of exposure to the louds has sufficiently damaged my hearing such that I cannot discern much difference among the sims. I can get sound that will work for me in about all of them. Not as good as a real amp in a real room, but good enough for me. The Helix UI is unacceptable though. Tiny text with tiny pic icons and sliders? No gouda.

 

I always use Nebula cabs if im using an Amp sim >>> you cannot get any closer to a real Cab than Nebula \m/>>> Also I never use presets on any softwareAmp Sim i build my own sound... an use the Nebula Impulses to get my Dynamics >>> their are some awsome sounding cabs from Nebula most real ive ever herd>>ive used every vendor for impulses thats out there an Nebula Kills them all hands down... i been using this Line6 helix with Nebula cabs last few days and its pretty Stellar >>> I record Tube Amps/cabs everyday in my studio @Pipotron3000 >>> and you are 100% correct on the static cabs/impulses that are missing for the REAL effect >>>the amp tones are there... it is the AIR movement push and pull that is in constant change during a live jam thru a speaker that makes the REAL>>> REAL >>> constant Velocity and Eq changes are the ticket in Amp tones just like a recorded drum performance and any live instruments

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2017

@Jaymz i like this drum analogy

This is the main digital problem (to me) : frequencies masking, due to static frequencies
The main reason why a real cab (or a good Nebula sim) cut better in the mix is micro dynamic/transients/different behavior with different frequencies. The famous "3D" effect.
I don't say it will be magical or be mandatory : a lot of albums where recorded with even simpler cab sim (low cut/high cut/scoop like RedBox original). But to me, IR (without additional algos) are even worse in this domain than frequency curve cab sims : they "flatten" dynamic.

YES, IR are better at room sound and global realism BUT a simple frequency curve cab (like my Tonelab LE) with a touch of additional room verb works better on dynamic.

"Iso cabs" will not disappear soon

As a side note, power amp compression/saturation is very important too. I remember early Line 6 users used regular compressor effect in output section, to compensate power amp lack.

Whereas Vox opted for Valvetronix system : a dummy power amp circuit using a real tube, loaded with dummy cab circuit.
So you get interaction between power amp tube and cab, in a box :D
Very clever : i sold my last tube amp to keep my Tonelab LE, as far as "all tube" realism goes.

Later, they replaced tube by solid state circuit, only because some idiots said the tube was in preamp circuit and was just "cosmetic"...
Vox killed their best invention in modeling, due to some stupid ppl.

 

yeah it works well, but if you like to share projects between. windows and macOS you are doomed when using 64 bit.
There is no 64 Bit VST version on macOS , only AU.

 

Oh please please tell me how you mic and record those fabulous amps and cabs of yours I'm sure you do it in a gold plated room where the champagne flows24/7 and please do go into detail of how they sound better recorded than a line 6 and just how you get that sound the one where you can hear the paper I'm sure you have golden ears listening to those quads ....


so while were nit picking don't you think that the english cork on the 12s sound so much better than the american its the crispness of the attack you know at 17.321273333 hz on a hot day i always find 17.321273334 just that much to much don't you maybe it the temperature of the glue when they seal it that makes it sound so much fresher

I CAN HARDLEY WAIT to see your reply ~~~40 years at this gig and never heard such bs from one mouth

btw i think that helix is a pretty great guitar sound .. and i bet it gets a better tone than those old cabs recorded through a shitty rig

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2017

Cause you don't know any better right ...

 

Hey @BudSpencer the language police......do the above comments need a Nasty or not? PLEASE ADVISE.

Only applies to a select lucky few of us?

Let's listen to @dazz's own words of wisdumb.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2017

In that we agree: A "Nasty" rating applies only to a very select few. Best regards, sir.

PS: please, let the original subject of the post go on. If you have a problem with my ratings, don't hi-jack the post; instead, send me a PM.

 

I realise I must be missing something, but does the fact that they put "60+ amplifiers, 30+ speaker cabinets and a wide range of 100+ effects" into an 18mb program have anything to do with it sounding a bit er... shite?

 

I just got the "demo" , from our sister site, ............(shakes head) how embarrassing. put it this way if you think it sounds good, try amplitube 4.(helix native in my mind is not worth the 18mb storage space, i would rather save the space for browser bookmarks. lol

 

IMO somebody at Line 6 is laughing his ass off to the bank knowing he sold people a max 40$ plugin for 400$.
What a disgusting company.

 

I'm inclined to agree. I bought one of the first Variax guitars in the early part of this century and sent it back to the states twice because the output levels of the strings was all over the place - some really loud, some really quiet - and they didn't fix it either time, then said it was my own fault for using the "wrong gauge strings" (???!) and refused to replace it. I thought it was just as likely to be caused by using the wrong colour plectrum.
I must admit I am still impressed by its acoustic sounds, though. The electric tones, on the other hand, are all tainted with that plastic plinky sound you get from piezo pickups.

 

Aaaawwww...this thread is priceless!!

Making a living as a guitarist for almost 30 years do you know how many times I couldn't put food on the table because I've used Line6 gear?
Not once.

When I used a Soldano x88r hand signed by the man himself (bought off a guy that had toured around the world twice with a huge artist in my country with this pre) I was still told by numerous guitarists that it had nothing on a ac15 cranked or a plexi driven on the edge.lol..
"for what?" was always my reply that I rarely got a coherent answer to.

I can't tell you the amount of times I had tracked 'THE guitar sound from the gods' only to hear it on tv or radio crushed by some engineer to fit with the rest of the mix..it used to really upset me until I realized what my role was in this much bigger picture. The man signing the cheques never complained that he couldn't hear the paper in the speaker moving or the pick attack. Only guitarists care about that.

Just for fun..how many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?
Love all you guys!

 

So?

We all know that you can make anything work if needed be. Tell that to swedish metal players and their Metal Zones which we all know they sound like TV static.

I tour with a Boss GT-8 that sounds like crap to any sane guitarist, but the audience doesn't care a damn bit and it's hella convenient. The sound guys even bug me to use it instead of my tube half stack because it sounds better according to them, so go figure.

The bottom line is that most people using software amp modelers are bedroom rockers/producers and couldn't care less if they can use them live. They just want something they love and enjoy to play. Simple.

To me Helix Native just doesn't cut it compared to S-Gear. It's fizzy all over the place. Would it work for tracking, producing or whatever? Sure. Do I enjoy its sound when I'm playing it? Nope.

 

Last edited: Sep 17, 2017

Nothing has really surpassed the mighty Johnson J station...................State of the Art.