You know, I'm not an expert, but I enjoy making music.

When I made a rave/dance track (I even posted it here, not spamming it in this thread though) I thought I nailed the mixing perfectly. The sound was clean, the kick and the bass were awesome (well it was just an offbeat bass, nothing really complex in that regard) and... it actually was. I really like that song.

Well, guess what. Today I was reading about Ozone mastering plugins and the I really wanted to learn the vectorscope from the Imager (or really, more about the imaging and stuff like that).

Me: "Hey, I never checked this mix in mono. The vectorscope says that there might be some phase issues. Well as long as sounds don't disappear it should be fine, no?" After checking the track in mono some parts are good, but some other parts are just horrible! Literally, a synth lead that comes around 6 minutes just disappeared. What I did with that synth was make it really spread across the stereo image, I thought it was really cool. Well what ended up happening was that with delay and stuff like that I guess it got phase-cancelled.

So today I learnt that checking your mix in mono is a thing to do while mixing, not after you release the track

So if you're looking for a question, I have one. What can I do when I'm spreading sounds (especially synths and sustained notes) to make sure that there will be no phase related issues? I like the sounds of a wide spread synth, but I want it to be audible in mono as well.

Thanks
- a guy who just got his morale destroyed because his best track is now poop

 

Don't think your mix is poop just because it doesn't sounds perfect in mono... most systems are stereo these days. But yes Mix should translate well to mono. When mixing always be shure to check how it sounds in mono regularly! Just my 2 cents.. synths like sylenth have way too much stereo widening so the best to do is to attenuate inside plug or use something like Waves S1 Imager to narrow the stereo width. Even layering several synths with too much stereo information will not translate well in mono and bring phase issues

 

Check with a vectorscope that the boundary of wide things should not be wider than a round circle (0 corr), ideally, thinner. Sounds should range from thin vertical oval (~0.9 corr, to circle 0 corr). If it's a flat horizontal oval, (-corr), they'll be weak in mono.

 

Mix Tip! EQ in mono. EQ while listening to your mix in mono.

This will yield better stereo mixes as well as point out muddiness and keep instruments from stepping on one another.

 

Interesting tip. When you do it mono do you just convert you masterbus to mono from stereo?

 

Just make sure everything under 250 hz is in mono (separate frequencies with multiband compressor and drag a utility with 0% in the lower band for example, or use Nugen stuff)

and from time to time in the production process check mono compatibility - u can use ableton utility for this - drag it on the master and make 0% in it. if it still sounds fine and everything is there, everything is ok.

 

Stereo is the enimy of music.
Phil Spector

 

Mono is super important and widely used.

Most clubs and venues I know of sum in mono.

 

Question - do you recommend mixing/EQing in mono even in surround projects?
If so, the correct way is to sum all channels equally?

 

Even when mixing in surround realize some people will be listening in mono, on a small tablet possibly.

Use the mono button on your DAW often when EQing, just remember to go back to stereo or surround for the final transfer.

Most pro mixers and mastering engineers will do this so the bass stays well defined. Middle side EQs like Pro-Q 2 are good for this also.

 

Last edited: Aug 6, 2016

In surround, you might have to realize some people will be listening in stereo.

 

This! People move around in venues and nightclubs. Even if seated and facing forward at a venue, only narrow section of seating would be in the 'sweet spot'.

I've never seen this point being made, which I think is important to consider:
Only headphones provide 180° of channel isolation. When listening in the real world, there's no isolation. The channels are being summed acoustically to varying degrees.

 

Hi all and thanks for the answers.
About bass frequencies in mono: oh yeah, I already did that. If you check my mix kick and bass have very little stereo information. The problem I'm talking about is another one. It happens when you spread too much a sound and it becomes too weak in mono (and in my case, it completely disappears LOL).

I figured by myself (and someone else also pointed it out) that when checking the vectorscope, anything that resembles a long horizontal oval will sound like shit in mono.

So I guess it's all about tweaking the sound and making it as wide as possible but still keeping it mono-compatible. Well there have to be compromises

 

Yeah Clubs are mono and many other places are mono. Because you can't have some sounds coming from one side of the club to another. A lot of people may use portable speakers and phone speakers which means mono comparability is needed. Usually you can naturally hear phasing after a while, you'll understand how it sounds most of the time too when you compare your more mono friendly mixes with previous phasing stereo mixes.

I keep most of my instruments mono, but pan them. Panning mono means it's all good. Panning stereo can bring hell to your mix. I make sure most the low frequencies are mono, things high end and such I use the haas effect to create stereo width and depth with some reverb. Then use a phase meter at the end and usually it's basically 75% mono which is good. Shifiting one or 2 sounds and adding (delay, reverb, stereo delay (haas effect) can give you the stereo you need without needing to go over the top.

 

For Surround > Mono, you can sum all the channels equally (& ditch the LFE). This will preserve the relationships (but may clip). Pre ungain post to taste. For Surr > 2ch, you'll want to C into LR @ -3dB, ditch LFE. Some standards suggest LSRS into LR @ -3dB.

I don't suggest mixing in mono 4 surr projects, but do keep an eye on the vectorscope as i said above. Stereo monitoring is goot. How wide you mix in each pair influences how your mix will sound when doing matrixed downmix. There are 4.5 tradeoffs as described here for matrixed https://docs.google.com/document/d/...KSPD9H-7kKhgLD6aE/edit#heading=h.u15ihiqrlsc0

"stereo is the new mono" for surround. I would not expect my surround mixes to be monoized, and Matrixed surround exists (for which you can throw mono comptibility out the door).

 

worth to check the Friday Forum Live! series from Point Blank https://www.youtube.com/user/pointblankonline/search?query=ffl

can start with

 

I wouldn't worry too much. I remember a prodigy track that had it's distorted guitar completely out of phase. As long as that doesn't happen with low frequencies when mastering to vinyl or there has to be some Dolby pro logic compliance, I guess it's OK.
Those clubs using only mono, don't they just use the left channel, instead of summing up?

 

The big club I DJed at for years summed L+R for the usual reason. Using one channel alone would prevent the problem the OP described with his track, but it creates volume imbalances among panned instruments in proper mixes. I've never performed at a club or other venue that had a stereo front of house system, but I don't know if any of them used only one channel instead of summed L+R. I would think that L+R is the universal standard in clubs and venues, but I can't say it's a fact.

 

You are experiencing phase issues, backtired, it's common when you use a lot of synth and effect (so when you do EDM for example).
Mono check allows you to spot phase issues when you are experienced, but a good visualiser will allow you to find area in you frequency where you have the most problem. Nugen visualiser has a correlation meter by frequency (it's on the sister site) it will spot for you exactly where your mix lacks clarity and you can go back and try to fix the synth pacth or the effects that are causing this (there might be several).
I often insist on visualisation tools and those aren't just pretty gadget they are actually extremely usefull. With experience your ears will tell you when your mix is starting to lose focus but until then, check in mono on your master, use a correlation meter and be very cautious with that, as much as you are with your head room.

 

You'll be under my wheels? That's one of the songs I upscaled to surround and sounded semi-discrete sometimes. There is not really a difinitive way of telling whether something was mixed in/for DPL or not, there is only good/bad or discrete/nondiscrete sounding (aka using width of sound to control front/rear balance). And meanings of each vary by person, because meanings are in people, not words.

Spoiler

there is stuff mixed in DPL that could sound shit (when upscaled), and stuff mixed in stereo that could sound goot upscaled. + 2 other cases.

Check with each individual club.