Scale modes?

Discussion in 'Education' started by ArticStorm, Aug 5, 2025 at 11:36 PM.

  1. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    So a few weeks ago i came across this video here:



    I always wondered why it was such a mess, when i blind tried to understand, what the order in a song/track is. Now this brings me a step further.

    But i really admire, how this simple shift in a normal scale, can change the mood so drastically.
    And i really have to also modify my strategy understanding songs.

    Are there any cool books or literature about Scales and modes for piano players, which could help me to understand chords in the different modes?

    Anyway ... so glad that yt algo threw that video in my timeline ... so i basically lived 28 years without knowing of scale modes ... :dunno::rofl:
     
  2.  
  3. naitguy

    naitguy Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    637
    Location:
    Canada
    Honestly, David Bennett Piano (what you linked) is a great source for music theory. I've probably watched hundreds of the guy's videos. But you can get caught up in that rabbit hole easily rather than making music with your gut. It's good to know at least some theory though. Jameson Nathan Jones and Implied Music on Youtube are also other good ones to follow / check out.
     
  4. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    dont get me wrong, i made music since i watched the video, even tried that out.
    And im curious to how much level it will change, what i will do in the next Ableton projects i start.

    I know its nice to say, hey here is my A-maj scale or A-min scale, let me work out the modes and then pick one, so i thought, maybe there are books, which have that already worked out, so i dont have to research it myself or roam through the internet to find what i need.
     
  5. shinyzen

    shinyzen Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2023
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    733
    Use scaler plugin! its an excellent teacher. I use it not only as a composition tool, but as a deep dive learning tool. Seriously such a great plugin.
     
  6. Somnambulist

    Somnambulist Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2024
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    573
    I can name a few. Unfortunately, some people get daunted when they see some kind of label, be it Classical or jazz or contemporary...The reality is in-depth harmonic principles only extrapolate, but they all have the same principles. It's like when I hear someone say "It's a jazz chord" when they see a label like C13#11. In simple terms it's also just a D triad over a C7 chord. It's just a chord not a jazz chord or an anything chord. The labels per style or genre are the only difference. Understanding that might be something worth getting into? Just do not get caught up in the BS. I also laugh when I hear people indicate that improvisation is exclusive to jazz. Classical musicians were the first to experiment in this area.

    Understanding modes is good but do just that, Understand them and their uses. It's not as big a deal as some make out. If you know something you know it, you do not have to talk about it because you would rather spend the time doing.

    When you compose, write a song or a melody, you are experimenting with what you hear, or envisage a concept...so it is all inter-related.
    Simply, learning what something does and how it sounds and works is way more important than being able to parrot a label. I can do both but I know what is the most useful. :)

    Here is one and it would scare a lot of people away because it is labelled jazz. It is deeply rooted in the blues even though it is what it says. If nothing else, it should provide a resource for you.
    https://www.amazon.com/Something-Borrowed-Blue-Principles-Composition/dp/3892211221

    Additionally, look up the Russell Garcia's arranging and composing books. The principles in that as he was an amazing Orchestrator, can be applied to any type of instrument or composition.
    Also - Understanding Counterpoint thoroughly, is one of the best tools you can use over and over and over again...Cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 3:16 AM
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  7. Djord Emer

    Djord Emer Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2021
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    977
    When it comes to modern modal piano music, this is the best resource I've found on YouTube:


    If you want to dive deeper into this kind of analysis, I’d recommend checking out the Berklee theory books, as it was the first institution to systematically teach it
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 5:07 AM
  8. capitan crunch

    capitan crunch Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2023
    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    284
    Location:
    euro dictatorship
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  9. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    586
    Music Modes - www.simplifyingtheory.com/music-modes

    • Ionian Mode
    • Dorian Mode
    • Phrygian Mode
    • Lydian Mode
    • Mixolydian Mode
    • Aeolian Mode
    • Locrian Mode
    • The origin of the Greek modes
    • How to use modes (creating Modal Music)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 8:25 AM
  10. Djord Emer

    Djord Emer Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2021
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    977
    upload_2025-8-6_6-16-3.png

    I felt physical pain reading that.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  11. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    586
    Thanks for the tip. These three sentences bring us closer to the truth:

    In Greek music theory, however, these modes were understood and applied quite differently than in the later Middle Ages or today. In particular, the ancient modes do not refer to the same scales as the later "church modes." The current system is the result of a transfer, with sometimes misleading names, in the Middle Ages.

    The major (Ionic) and minor (Aeolian) systems only developed as central scales in European music from the 17th century onward. The names major/minor represent scale families that were not known in this form in antiquity.

    In the Middle Ages, the Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, and Mixolydian modes were primarily used. The Ionian and Aeolian scales were adopted much later and then equated with the major and minor systems.
     
  12. Gipxi

    Gipxi Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2025
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    7
    I agree 100% with @Somnambulist, I couldn't have put it better myself.

    Music is a very complex art with many subjects, thay are all related. Harmony, melody and rhythm form a whole, learning just one aspect of it can be sterile and not usefull. They are all important and, like a painter palette, it's not just the different colours but also the material and medium that make the final piece. It's implicit that what you feel, want to comunicate it's the primal step, whatever it is.
    Being curious and wanting to learn new things it's great and might give you inspiration for composing music in a different way, giving you new perspectives.
    Understanding the various forms, chords structures and progressions, melodyes and arrangement within a given genre, expands the language you can use and sometimes you realise that you are already doing certaing things but didn't give them a definition.

    Creating tension is the fundamental goal in music and it is the way to express, or portray if you like, emotions. We feel an emotion when we are feeling a tension of any kind. That is where Counterpoint and Arranging come essential.

    I recomend this very old book What to Listen for in Music, Aaron Copland, and this video
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 11:09 AM
    • Like Like x 1
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  13. Somnambulist

    Somnambulist Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2024
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    573
    There is a good reason I said knowing how and what to do with them is important.
    There are also modes of Melodic minor:
    I -Melodic minor (jazz minor scale), II - Dorian b2 (Phrygian #6), III - Lydian augmented, IV - Lydian dominant (overtone scale), V - Mixolydian b6, VI - Aeolian b5 (Locrian #2), VII - Altered scale
    ( Super Locrian).

    The Harmonic minor makes it simpler again - 1st mode, 2nd mode, 3rd mode - through to 7th mode.

    I learned them all more than thirty years ago along with many other things including counterpoint and full Orchestral arranging. I do not even think about them, I just play and hear now. That has always been the most productive result, the usage of them. :)

    As I said, it's not as important as knowing and hearing HOW - instinctively. Learning them is fine and important but the doing will always be more important.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • List
  14. nmkeraj

    nmkeraj Producer

    Joined:
    May 2, 2016
    Messages:
    756
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Milky Way
    https://amzn.eu/d/36yz8dm

    You can find a free download for this. If you couldn’t find it PM me.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 2:09 PM
    • Interesting Interesting x 2
    • List
  15. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    @Somnambulist to be honest, i understand so far, that you can take any scale and basically create modes from it, which arent scales again at that same time.
    Also i do not get daunted, you can use everything in the genre/style of your choice ... :) So drop the books ;)

    thanks for the resources.

    What i am really looking for is some kind of book, which lists the notes and ther order of the chords for these chords in the mode.
    I tried writing it down myself, but it seems way to much work. (i know i can do it ... but why do it, when somebody else has done it already?)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 2:55 PM
  16. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    actual fine to read, ive read worse in my job ... so im pain proved in that way. (had to look up every 2nd word for my job)
     
  17. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    1,224
    Likes Received:
    586
    Modale Tonleitern: www.stickytunes.net/gitarren-workshop-modale-tonleitern-teil-1

    Für eine praktische Übersicht über Tonleitermodi, inklusive Noten und Akkordreihenfolgen für jeden Modus, gibt es spezielle Musiktheorie-Bücher und Online-Ressourcen, die genau dies leisten. Das gängigste Beispiel ist der Aufbau aller 7 Modi (ionisch, dorisch, phrygisch, lydisch, mixolydisch, äolisch, lokrisch) aus einer Grundtonleiter – typischerweise wird dafür die C-Dur-Tonleiter genutzt. Zu jedem Modus werden jeweils die passenden Akkorde (Stufenakkorde) abgeleitet und oft in Tabellen gelistet.stickytunes+2

    Ein Beispiel dafür findet sich in Gitarren-Lehrbüchern und diversen Musiktheorie-Workshops: Dort steht meist eine Tabelle mit den Modi, deren Grundtönen, den daraus resultierenden Akkorden, deren Reihenfolge und deren Klangcharakter. Am Praxisbeispiel C-Dur sieht das so aus (die Akkordfolge ergibt sich jeweils aus dem jeweiligen Modus, der durch Verschiebung des Grundtons entsteht):

    I: Ionisch (C) – Cmaj (Dur)
    II: Dorisch (D) – Dm (Moll)
    III: Phrygisch (E) – Em (Moll)
    IV: Lydisch (F) – Fmaj (Dur)
    V: Mixolydisch (G) – Gmaj (Dur)
    VI: Äolisch (A) – Am (Moll)
    VII: Lokrisch (B) – Bdim (vermindert)

    Die Stufenakkorde zu jedem Modus findest du übersichtlich z.B. im kostenlosen PDF „Das System der Gitarre verstehen Tonleitern Ionisches System“ und in Online-Tutorials wie bei Stickytunes. Speziell das Buch/Workbook von 12hoch2 (siehe PDF-Vorschau) und die Webseite Stickytunes liefern zu jedem Modus einer Grundtonleiter die exakte Reihenfolge – meist wird auf Noten und Griffbildern alles klar dargestellt, so dass man nicht selbst alles zusammenschreiben muss.12hoch2+2

    Wenn du ein umfangreiches Nachschlagewerk suchst, das die Modi nicht nur erklärt, sondern akribisch für alle Tonarten und inklusive Akkordfolgen durchlistet, findest du so etwas auch oft in Gitarren-Skalenbüchern („Scales and Modes“ für Gitarre/Bass) und speziellen Musiktheorie-Werken wie im PDF „The Best Of Bass Complete“. Viele moderne Theorie-Workbooks kombinieren kompakte Modus- & Akkordtabellen mit Griffbildern, teilweise sogar mit Anwendung in Songbeispielen.sontick.nethouse

    Wichtig: Meist wird dabei die C-Dur-Tonleiter verwendet, weil sie keine Vorzeichen hat und grafisch/visuell gut nachvollziehbar ist. Alle Modi kannst du dann einfach in jede beliebige Tonart transponieren.

    Zusammengefasst: Für den von dir gewünschten Überblick über Noten- und Akkord-Reihenfolgen je Modus empfiehlt sich ein systematisches Theorie- oder Griffbild-Buch (wie das von 12hoch2 oder ein Standardwerk zu Skalen/Modi), da du dann alles fix und fertig in Tabellen, Akkorddiagrammen und ggf. Noten oder Tabulaturen bekommst. Die Arbeit selbst machen musst du dann wirklich nicht mehr!
     
  18. The Dude

    The Dude Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    540
    I don't fully understand your question - what about Scaler (you can add extra notes to the triad - 7th, 9th by pressing V9 on the left)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2025 at 4:47 PM
  19. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    i often sit/stand in front of my keyboards and just wanna explore something rather than clicking. Such a physical print out of a book is much more helpful than any plugin can provide. I am a bit more old fashioned there.
    Also hands on something in a physical space, it does create a different inspiration mood/space, than any plugin would ever do for me.
     
  20. shinyzen

    shinyzen Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2023
    Messages:
    1,169
    Likes Received:
    733
    exactly. Scaler is so deep its crazy. An excellent resource for learning, especially for piano players. Bonus is that you can practice along with some of their performances.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  21. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    4,383
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    i think that is a task for something like chatgpt. print all modes for all major scales and add all the triad chords and create pdf.
    Sadly i did run out of tries to find a compact format.
    maybe i can also add the 7th chords?

    Hopefully tomorrow or so.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Scale modes Forum Date
Your favourite scales or modes Lounge May 15, 2022
Export Chord progression from Scaler 3? Software Jul 14, 2025
The person who designed Scaler 3 Software Apr 17, 2025
A Ring Modulator That Makes It Easy To Set Frequencies Resonances By Key/Scale? Mixing and Mastering Apr 10, 2025
Scaler 3 announced! Software News Jan 15, 2025
Loading...