Running DAW software on New I9 PC w. 10-cores = Noisey Speakers? Help!

Discussion in 'DAW' started by Cardamom, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. Cardamom

    Cardamom Producer

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    RESOLVED!!! Ebtech's Hum-X is a Godsend and a miracle-worker. Wowsa.

    Hi all. Switched out to a new system and just getting down to mixing. On my old PC/setup, using an Audient ID14 for my interface and Sonar Platinum for my DAW software - I had no excessive noise coming from my Quake audio monitors (5').

    NOW, on the new PC, I have RF/EMI type noise flaring up REGARDLESS of volume on the speakers OR the mixer, but especially when I run Sonar Platinum. Even 1 plugin is enough to generate the noise and yes, it gets worse the more plugins I'm running, but it's there even when there's none.

    Have tried disconnecting all other USB items, internet, disabling (in the BIOS) all unused stuff like onboard audio/Lan, etc. No change. Have bypassed the mixer and taken the Audio Interface right to the Quake Audio Studio monitors - NOPE - it's Sonar Platinum running that introduces the strange noises.

    Do you think a power conditioner - plugging both the speakers and the PC and the interface into it - MIGHT solve the problem or is it the fact that so many cores running in SONAR Platinum is causing the problem?

    I can use non-studio monitors (good speakers) for quiet mixing as the RF/EMI noise is significantly lower with them (Polk Audio) AND they are running through/via the mixer. But hey, I'd really like to have the Quake Monitors as my main go-to mixing tool.

    Thoughts? Suggestions? Just by the Power Conditioner and see what happens?
    Thanks in advance,
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  3. ThrashHead

    ThrashHead Platinum Record

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    I had a similar problem with a laptop and it turned out to be the power supply. I used an Ebtech HumX to eliminate it.
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ebtech+humx

    Not sure if the problem I had is exactly like yours, but that's something to look into. It was a pain in the ass to figure out what the problem was at first. That will get rid of any ground loops if you are dealing with that.
     
  4. poly

    poly Producer

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    ..or cheap monitor with in-build power supply!
    Was a problem on a friends monitor.

    Or you have an audio interface buffer problem?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
  5. tchouangtseu

    tchouangtseu Member

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    Sounds like a ground loop to me or a bad pc/power supply grounding... Try playing around with the different sockets you are using and see if the noise is still present.

    A power conditioner as you mentioned wont help you get rid of such ground loop
     
  6. quadcore64

    quadcore64 Audiosexual

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    Not knowing your system specs I, can only guess & recommend what has already been stated. One other thing to check/try is disconnecting the front audio in/out connectors. You may also have to bridge the required header pins for some boards with this approach. Refer to the manual.
     
  7. ThrashHead

    ThrashHead Platinum Record

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    For anyone who stumbles onto this thread because of noise from your laptop:

    Pull your power supply out and run your laptop on its battery. If the noise goes away, you know it's your power supply causing the problem. Use a different outlet or use humx or another transformer device to get rid of the ground loop. Replacing the power supply or using a power conditioner will not solve the problem.
     
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  8. clone

    clone Platinum Record

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    since you do not have a power conditioner already, now may be a good time to get one anyway if you have the money. They can definitely help with the symptoms of ground loops. But I would try everything else first, since you did not have this issue with the older machine.

    throwing money around can work but it's usually a bad way to diagnose problems.
     
  9. doctorG

    doctorG Kapellmeister

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    Firsts and Last.................POWER Supply
     
  10. ThrashHead

    ThrashHead Platinum Record

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    If you have different devices/equipment plugged into different outlets that are not on the same circuit, it could cause ground loops. Check that first before you do anything else to help you narrow it down.
     
  11. Paul Pi

    Paul Pi Audiosexual

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  12. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    The more the CPU works, the more power is required. The higher the noise. This is more of a hardware problem. It is possible that your PC is not properly grounded. It is possible that your PC case has defects. It is possible that your power supply is defective. Try another power supply. You can also check the mainboard cover. Maybe also disconnect the USB front connector from the mainboard. No, the CPU cores aren't - it's not a sonar problem either.
     
  13. Cardamom

    Cardamom Producer

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    Man, just never any suggestions when you need one.

    KIDDING!! - YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME! Thank you thank you thank you! I don't know how much help I have had here and am so grateful for the attitude of gratitude that mostly all of you guys share.

    I will skip the power conditioner for the moment and order both of the other suggestions (namely the Behringer Micro Hum Destroyer and the Ebtech Hum X Plug-Style AC Voltage Ground Loop Hum Eliminator) prior to the slightly more expensive option, which is a power conditioner.

    QUESTION:
    1. Would I be able to plug my PC's power cable into the Ebtech Hum X and then that into into my UPS or would that kind of defeat the purpose?
    2. Could I plug my the Ebtech Hum X into the wall and then the UPS into that, thereby taking all power-feeds through that routing?
    3. And would I be right in assuming that I'd plug the PC into the Ebtech Hum X and not the studio monitors (which would mean getting two of them).
    Cardamom
     
  14. ThrashHead

    ThrashHead Platinum Record

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    Mate, read through all of this:
    https://www.morleyproducts.com/ebtech-downloads/

    Morley owns ebtech so all the docs are on their site.

    You really should figure out if you have a ground issue first before buying and gear. You'll learn how to do that with some of that info.
     
  15. ThrashHead

    ThrashHead Platinum Record

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    As for your questions:

    1. No, it doesn't defeat the purpose. Read up on how hum-x works. It's for a single device though, but I do believe they make a rack unit.

    2. Hmmm, not sure if that would screw anything up, probably not as I believe the hum-x can handle up to 6amps. Although I would plug the device/pc causing the problem into the hum-x and then plug that into the ups.

    3. The hum-x is for your AC power. The other unit that Paul Pi mentioned is for audio signals. I have a similar unit and it works well for noise, but keep in mind these devices are for two different things, so try and figure out what is causing your issue first. Follow the ebtech guides to narrow down the problem.
     
  16. Giggity

    Giggity Platinum Record

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    Do one of the following:

    1. Check speaker XLR cables; you want them to be balanced and shielded:
        • Balanced cable with soft PVC jacket is constructed with oxygen-free copper (OFC) conductors for delivering pristine sound
        • Copper braided shielding of these Mic cables provides maximum cancellation of hum and noise; Polyethylene insulation improves high frequency response. Heavy duty metal connectors with molded strain relief and grip treads increase durability and help easy plugging and unplugging
    2. Consider using a power conditioner; a line interactive would be a good start, the best would be a completely online UPS.

    If the issues persist, contact your landlord to fix your dishwasher so that the refrigerator can get the food warmer. Not recommended.
     
  17. mk_96

    mk_96 Kapellmeister

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    while you're on that, check out if you can get rid of some noise by changing the speakers and PC orientation. I doubt it'll do anything noticeable if the problem happens to be your power supply, but you won't loose anything trying.
     
  18. Cardamom

    Cardamom Producer

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    Got a new internal battery for my UPS today, so I did what you suggested - running the PC and peripherals on JUST the battery. Noise backed off quite a bit. I NOW HAVE THE PC stuck in the wall socket on its own (no UPS support) and I can actually live with the minor amount of noise when it's set up this way - tells me that it is dirty power. Will await the Ebtech Hum X to see if it'll knock it back a lot. I've got an older UPS that just needs a new battery, so I will plug THAT into the Ebtech (which will be in the wall socket) and the Desktop PC and ONLY the Desktop PC into that UPS. Thanks much for your thoughts. :)
     
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  19. Moonlight

    Moonlight Audiosexual

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  20. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    The noises you hear are noises transmitted from the PC (hard drive activity, CPU, etc.), which are caused by insufficient shielding, poor electronic construction, or a defect.

    Is more of a piece of information about hum, you have noise, maybe an important piece of information:

    Rule of thumb: supply everything that is wired to one another from a single socket using a good distribution strip. This ensures that all devices have the same ground potential for power supply and protective contact. This also means, for example, that devices such as subwoofers, televisions or video projectors positioned remotely from the system can also be supplied with power from the same connector strip using an extension cable. If this is not possible and problems arise, there are again little helpers who neutralize the hum loop. One way: Use, for example, optical digital lines and WLAN as a computer network.

    How do I eliminate annoying humming and humming (ground loop)?

    symptom
    There is an undesirable humming or buzzing sound in the audio signal.

    root cause
    This can be caused by devices that introduce an electrical potential into the ground connection. This includes:

    - Peripheral devices connected to your computer.
    - A poor quality power supply.
    - The use of multiple mains sockets.
    - Nearby electrical devices such as refrigerators, electrical heaters, elevators, fans, dimmer switches, etc.

    solutions
    Eliminating a ground loop requires some research. The following troubleshooting steps show the most common solutions:

    Disconnect the connected devices
    To find out where the earth loop is created, disconnect all devices one after the other from your main device (e.g. from your computer, mixer or MASCHINE +), but not the amplifier and / or the speakers. This also applies to any peripheral devices that you may have connected (external hard drives, MIDI controllers, etc.).
    To find out if the amplifier or active monitors are creating the ground loop, check the audio signal through the headphone output of your device (while the amplifier / active monitors are not connected).
    When you have found the device that is responsible for the ground loop, a so-called ground lift (disconnecting the ground connection) of the device's audio line can help. However, never disconnect the earth connection of the power line!
    To find out whether disconnecting the ground connection is supported on the respective device, please contact the manufacturer. Some devices have a corresponding switch, others require a modified audio cable or a DI box to be used (see below).

    Power supply
    A poor quality power supply can create ground loops, especially on laptops. Disconnect the computer from the AC adapter so that your laptop runs solely on the internal battery to see if that solves the problem. If you then want to use a replacement AC adapter, make sure that the specifications match those of your computer to avoid permanent damage.

    Common power socket
    Always connect your devices to the same mains socket (e.g. with a multiple socket outlet). Note that even if your laptop is not connected to power, your setup can still be prone to ground noise from an external, self-powered device.
    All devices that are physically connected to each other should share the same electrical outlet. You may also need to separate two-pin plugs from grounded plugs (three-pin) by connecting them to their own circuits.

    Electrical appliances nearby
    Eliminate possible sources by turning off nearby electrical devices one at a time. Alternatively, you can unplug all of the devices and then reconnect them one at a time to see which device is causing the problem.
    If it is still not possible to identify the cause of the hum or buzz, we recommend testing the device in a different location (e.g. in a different house or studio) to see if the problem persists.
    If the source cannot be identified or has been identified but cannot be eliminated, a grounded power supply (one that has ground connections) should help.
    Note: If you are unsure whether the electrical system in your house / apartment is properly grounded, we recommend consulting a professional electrician.

    Symmetrical audio lines
    Whenever possible, always use balanced audio lines to connect your audio devices to your mixer and amplifier or active speakers. If your mixer has both unbalanced and balanced inputs, always connect the balanced sources to the corresponding inputs on the mixer.

    DI boxes
    If the ground loop cannot be canceled with the above instructions, you can try connecting a DI box between audio equipment, mixer and / or amplifier or active loudspeaker. With a DI box, symmetrical cable routing is possible even with asymmetrical sources. Many of these DI boxes are also equipped with a switch for disconnecting the ground line (ground lift).
    https://support.native-instruments....ich-störendes-Brummen-und-Summen-Erdschleife-

    Sheath current filter

    Sheath current filters are electronic components that can prevent noise signals travelling in the sheath of sheathed cables, which can cause interference. Using sheath current filters, ground loops causing mains hum and high frequency common-mode signals can be prevented.
    Depending on the type, sheath current filters can remove or ameliorate hum in audio equipment, scanning frequencies in AV equipment and unwanted common-mode signals in coaxial cables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheath_current_filter

    Brennerstuhl - Premium-Alu-Line Technics extension socket 12-way 3m H05VV-F 3G1.5 every 6 sockets switched
    www.brennenstuhl.com/en-DE/products/extension-leads/premium-alu-line-technics-extension-socket-12-way-3m-h05vv-f-3g1.5-every-6-sockets-switched
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
  21. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Humming, hissing and beeping with the jack connection on the front panel

    It is enough if the front panel is poorly shielded - you already have humming, beeping, squeaking, etc. You can test that well if there are also USB ports in the front. Insert a USB stick, copy some data to it and listen to music. That should sound pretty bad. On my Silverstone Fortress 2, the front panel is completely unusable for this very reason and in my case it is not due to any other disruptive factors. My front panel is just crap. And unfortunately that happens quite often. Another disruptive factor can be the cables (HD audio) from the sound card to the front panel. Apart from thin insulation, they usually have no shielding at all and like to run past graphics cards, hard drives, power packs, etc. and collect all interference that can accumulate in the housing. With a bit of luck, this can be remedied a little with additional insulation. Generally speaking, audio via the front panel is actually always significantly worse than when connecting directly to the sound card or mainboard.
     
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