For 5 years I have striven to understand just how this artist achieved what he achieved. Just take a listen, and you'll understand what I mean(works best with headphones). It's as if I'm in an interactive room where the sound is a force moving around me, surrounding me. Just how did Pogo achieve such a rich sound that was able to move spacial planes so flawlessly? I've tried WaveArts Panorama, A.O.M's Cyclic Panner, Noisemakers Binauralizer, even FL Studio's Effector "stereo preset", and nothing has come close to Pogo's sound quality, a quality maintained while moving around me. The plugin's I've tried just have too many artifacts to sound feasible, I've tried with many different types of audio. Is it just top notch mixing, or what? I think perhaps that the quality of his sound in this particular example is in part because of how he recorded a movie straight from a dvd, utilizing the "built in" 5.1 surround sound experience already present in the dvd's audio. He shows how he achieves this in this video. How can I "trick" Windows to detect 5.1 surround from a dvd, or perhaps create "fake surround sound" from a stereo signal? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Most things involving 'surround' and 'headphones' is almost certainly HTRF/binaural related. Go read up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function & do web searches on HRTF/HRIR/Binaural. I'm guessing the reason why Pogo sounds good is because it uses really goot generalized HRIRs, or recorded using a very goot dummy head, something which I have not been able to find in VSTs. WaveArts Panorama & Noisemakers Binauralizer use HRTF. So does beyerdynamics VS & isone surround (latter 2 support 6ch input, both FREE). A.O.M's Cyclic Panner uses stereo field rotation (which is different, but tries to achieve a similar effect though different means which is loudspeaker-compatible). Many DVDs have a 5.1 surround track. If you have 4 or more physical speakers you can listen to it in real physical surround. If you want to listen to it in binaural surround on 2ch headphones, get the 6ch audio, and apply beyerdynamics or isone surround to it to get a 2ch HRTFmix. You can also apply HRTF VSTs to 2ch mixes to make them sound more comfortable on headphones, in fact, I reccomend applying HTRF on playback for long periods of headphone listening. You can upscale 2ch to 6ch (using a good FFT-based upscaler like DTS neural upmix) then downmix via HTRF, but the benefit would be minimal. If you would like to add some 3D HRTF effects to your song, best thing would be to selectively apply HRTF VSTs to specific tracks and pan them around using the VST (or use pre-HRTF 'd SFX). Search "Kall Binaural". They have some HRTF 'd SFX. Edit 2: ahh dammit, I keep on misspelling HRTF as HTRF Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
Thanks for the references, mewoingtons and kalarsch. You too, junh, for the HRTF wikipedia link. Cool stuff. I thought a link to the matchbox shaker so-called "holophonic" sound that's said to include a vertical component might fit in here. Sometimes, I get the impression of vertical movement in the sound, sometimes not. If I'm wearing open cans, I don't get the vertical illusion at all. Closed cans, however, almost always work (for me) as long as no other noises tickle the old auricles while the sample plays back.
Sounds like a combo of panning, Haas Effect and dual mono filtering (which is what HTRF is about, simplistically). The reverb also adds to the depth of field. Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
Thank you guys for the information! I already have TB Isone and Beyerdynamics VS actually, and may experiment with them again. May even look into game audio and it's HTRF capabilities and applying that to music. I'm a few steps closer to understanding how all of this works, thanks again.
It literally says the procedure in the video description. "A virtual 3D recording of my track 'Upular' playing through a pair of club speakers as you walk around the venue. Someone requested this and I thought it was a good idea. Enjoy." So pretty much, there is nothing to it at all. He just made a normal track and mixed it like any other mortal musician would. Then he played it on his normal monitors and recorded it playing out of them with one of those 3D microphones where there is a mic in each ear on something that looks like a human head. I don't think there is something out there that really simulates this. You have to take into accountance the room, the moving, the air. Like the talkbox, some thing cannot be made with a computer. But maybe you can get very close if you just look around. But what do I know, I haven't tried this myself so possibly there will be some tools available for people who make films or something. Very interesting to sample multichannel dvd's. I might get into that. Probably a great source for percussion
^ Lol! As real as it gets (binaural mics, speakers and a great sounding room). Love it! My previous answer wasn't totally off though (if you want to recreate it ITB). Just add some additional Doppler Effect.
Yeah I read that too, but considering he said "virtual recording", I assumed he somehow recreated the effect with some software or something. But perhaps he really just record it binaurally. Hmm...where can I find a dummy head and ear mics...
Yeah, it sounds a bit misleading. I cannot imagine this being anything else. It really sounds like someone is just walking around a speaker holding my head, bizzare as it sounds This really caught my interest, so thank you for sharing. I will dig deeper into this and come back if I find anything useful.
I think it's delay/reverb, panning, EQ, which is (almost) the same Don't count on it. Majority of Mch Music DVDs are mixed (very) poorly. You're better off using (remix) stems. === I work in multichannel surround (5.1/5.1) and more recently (7.0/7.1). The following song was mixed in discrete surround and then downmixed to 2ch via HRTF using Isone? I think [midi is only ~half mine]. Have a listen and see if you can guess where the instruments are meant to be panned. Mostly static imaging, but there are some rotations around the bridge. The HRTF effect is rather weak for me. YMMV. http://www.mediafire.com/download/i4v2q8c1ad8b9z3/6LRSmidi2_htrf.mp3 The HRTF is stronger for me if i use the surround preset on Beyerdynmics VS (not shown). Do note that if you're downmixing surrround to 2ch HRTF, most VSTs tht do that I have tested don't downmix the C Ch correctly (should be -3dB into L & R instead of 0dB into L & R) so do that manually beforehand. Everyone's head is different, and real surround with multiple speakers will generally sound better than HRTF stuff, which is one of the reasons i work with real discrete surround instead. Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
You don't need a dummy head. You can place binaural mics (small condensers) in/at your ears. It's always cheaper to use your own head. Then hit record and move around.
I asked Pogo himself and he amazingly responded! You were right @iluvhiphop ! Hi James, Thanks for your kind words. Yes, the track was played through several speakers and I walked around them using a pair of binaural microphones inside silicone ears. So glad you enjoy it. Thanks very much James. Best, Nick Bertke
So you were saying that playing the pogo song through the 5.1 studio preset in beyerdynamics vs did it for you? EDIT: I've given Beyerdynamics VS a try, and holy shit, messing with the 5.1 surround preset wiring is giving me some impressive results. This is awesome. Last edited: Jun 26, 2017
Since people are gravedigging here i'll makea repost of my HRTF LIST LINK. Playing stereo through the 5.1 preset will give you a simulation of stereo through a 5.1 system. Playing 5.1 through the 5.1 preset will give you a simulation of 5.1 through a 5.1 system.
I've analyzed that list and it's much appreciated. I may add to it as well. You said you work in surround, right? If I ever have any more deep interests about this subject I'll surely come to you.
