Reaper daw, how does midi 64 hold pedal work in midi

Discussion in 'Reaper' started by samsome, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. samsome

    samsome Producer

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    [​IMG]

    does it simply extend the midi notes?

    or does it do something else?

     
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  3. midi-man

    midi-man Audiosexual

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    Something else it's called a sustain pedal. They are on a piano to give the notes resonance. Sort of like reverb.
     
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  4. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    You hold the notes with the foot and don't need to hold them with your fingers down any longer.
    On a real piano this has an additional effect because all the strings a swinging freely and even the ones you don't play are stimulated to vibrate/resonate.
     
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  5. orbitbooster

    orbitbooster Platinum Record

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    As long CC64 is active (127), MIDI Note Off message is ignored until is 0 again.
    MIDI roll notes are not touched , but only sound sustain due to the missing Note Off MIDI message.
    From your roll example, you could try to shorten notes, but as long they are triggered once and within the CC64 ON (127), they will sound sustained until the next chord.
    Hope it helps.
     
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  6. Ad Heesive

    Ad Heesive Audiosexual

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    @No Avenger explained what happens with the Sustain pedal on a piano. There's also a Sostenuto pedal that's similar but it only holds notes that were On when the pedal was pressed. People use it to hold chords and play melodies over the held chord.

    @orbitbooster explained how midi is supposed to emulate the behaviour of those pedals.

    In practice... 'You hope' that your DAW handles MIDI CC 64 Damper/Sustain and MIDI CC 66 Sostenuto
    in a way that emulates you using the pedal on a real piano.

    That means (roughly) that even though a recorded midi note is supposed to issue a 'note-off' event, if there was a pedal event CC 64 current at that time then the note-off will get ignored and the note will sustain until the CC 64 ends.
    That means the recorded midi note does not (should not) need to be lengthened (in the editor) in order to play the sustained length.

    But if you actually 'wanted to' lengthen the midi notes (in the editor) and then do away with the CC 64 events it would be down to how much help can your DAW provide. In Logic (for example), there is a function called "Sustain Pedals to Note Length". It analyses the sustain pedal events (CC 64) on selected notes, and (destructively) lengthens the recorded midi notes, so that they sustain until the CC 64 off message is reached. And then it erases the redundant pedal events.
    Maybe other DAWs provide something similar.
     
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  7. RobertoCavally

    RobertoCavally Ultrasonic

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    Best Answer
    Just to add to the confusion:

    Imagine you play the note(s)/keys, then you press the pedal, the you release the pedal and at the end, you release the keys. That way the note(s) are held longer than the pedal. While the pedal is DOWN the sound of the piano changes because:
    Most e.g. (Kontakt) libraries and physically modeled pianos can mimic that. It is usually called "repedaling". (The "sound" should change anyway if you play note(s) with pedal down or up).

    An then there is "half pedaling".. where CC64 becomes a continuous controller, not only on/off.

    From NI Grandeur manual (anatomy section):

    REPEDALING enables repedaling — if the sustain pedal is depressed during note release, the remaining sound sustains.


    HALFPEDAL: Enables the use of acontinuous sustain pedal for half-pedaling. On a piano you can decide how far the dampers are lifted from the strings by controlling how far down you press the pedal. This affects the release time and the amount of resonance.

    When the HALFPEDAL button is un-checked, a continuous sustain pedal is transformed into an on/off switch. (For half-pedal-ling you need a special continuous sustain pedal, which outputs midi values from 1-127instead of an on/off command.)
     
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  8. orbitbooster

    orbitbooster Platinum Record

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    Hit the key and immediately after push the pedal.
    It works pretty (very) well in the NI series pianos, basically it sustains the tail of the note, just after the peak, it gives a touch of realistic behaviour.

    I don't have a continuous pedal controller, but with real pianos, unless well maintained and possibly high end, it doesn't work very well (stiff pedal, unbalanced dampers rail, etc).
    As far as I know it's not a very used technique in anyway, but I'll investigate on it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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