i wouldnt recomend connecting your speakers directly to the aio, no volume knob, maybe with the "baby remote?"
you would otherwise need a volume /monitor controler.
like i said the babyface would probably more than sufficent (and has a volume control)

compared to the motu? you going to love the sound and ridiculllus volume! even the headphone is fucking hot!

.ps
the bbface pro has madi!... that is posibble 44ch io (for the future) i belive

 

Please let me add:
If your CPU hits 100%, well, then your CPU isn't good enough :D At least as we're talking about buffer sizes >=128
First of all: I didn't read much about ASIO in this thread, but please keep in mind that _some_ users aren't using it. Always be sure to use ASIO drivers. If your soundcard doesn't support ASIO (e.g. some onboard cards), use ASIO4ALL (which you may use already, as FL Studio customer ;)).

Ok, let's assume you got a quite good cpu, something with at least 4 cores (hopefully 8 threads, as you say: i7) with 3Ghz++.
The more (vsti) synths you're using in a project, the more cpu power is needed. When you turn up buffer size (eg from 32 to 64) you'll have more "cpu headroom", because it has more time to calculate everything before delivering.

It's true, some audio cards have a better latency than others, but you shouldn't aim too much on this special topic, because an upgrade/change wouldn't satisfy you at all.

Please keep in mind, that the cpu load in your daw isn't only meaning "it's calculating". Also IO waiting time is added to the cpu load (-meter in your daw). If you stream a lot from hard disk (e.g. in Reaper) within your project, you should upgrade to a ssd or then invest into a stress free future and install an NVMe pcie m.2 ssd ;)
You should look for an high IOPS count (50k++) and maybe to a general low latency there.
Since I got my Samsung 960 pro nvme there is no more glitching caused by streaming io wait load. But that's a bit overkill for usual users :D

I wouldn't go deeper into technical details at this point, let me go back to your question:

Well, raise the buffer size. Done.

I expect here kinda objection so I assume you want a low buffer size and latency as well!?
My question here: WHY?

Is it for live setups?
Then prepare your projects correctly! Freeze all tracks you don't need for you're live acting (e.g. whole drum buses, but maybe also background synths) to lower the cpu usage! Playing samples is easy for every cpu. Ask yourself if you really need all the synth and fx stuff live calculated! Mostly not. You'll get more cpu headroom because you don't stress your cpu for calculating data unnecessarily which isn't topic to change while your perfomance.

Is it for recording live in your studio?
The same as above - the less your cpu has to do, the lower you can set your audio buffer - and the more direct your input is.
When I record some phrases on my keyboard, I turn off all unnecessary plugins and turn my buffer down to 32. After that, I turn it back to 128 and re-enable all other stuff. I can focus on my recording and have the lowest possible latency.

Is it for something else?
What exactly then? Please don't tell me just for a better visual feedback

 

Thank you for you huge well typed post, but I kinda knew about 99% of your first big part, but thanks for the reminder. Anyway, that's not my CPU being too weak, not at all. That's my CPU communicating very bad with the drivers of my actual MOTU. Drivers are not updated anymore and the buffer size of the MOTU Asio is ridiculous (1024 max). So I'm searching for a soundcard with better drivers and that can use my CPU more efficiently.

So my CPU 100% spikes are mostly in the mixing sessions of my productions/compositions, when I end up with 70+ tracks and at least 50-80 plugins (maybe more, in my dreams). Dont tell me to simplify my workflow, it's already the case, I full freeze and bounce mixer tracks two times per song most of the time, first I compose, chose my sources and use them, I shape the basic property of the tracks, then when I really want to mix it and go in depth per track I go to another fresh project and that's at this point that the issue is very un-productive.

So, I know at this point I wont get a soundcard that will like double my CPU performance in DAWs, but I know I can get a very very nice and needed higher ceiling. With better buffer (even Asio4All have higher buffer than MOTU Asio, but it's crap/still hitting 100% so) and better/newer/up to date drivers, I know there will be enhancements. I just need to find out which product I must chose to really upgrade from my MOTU Ultralite.

Thanks for your time!

Yeah I might just simply go for a Babyface Pro, I'm waiting for someone who can tell me how drivers and buffer sizes of the BabyFace are doing VS the HDSPe!

Really? Because what you're saying is EXACTLY what I felt when upgrading from M-Audio Firewire 410 to this MOTU. Huge dynamic, way stronger main volume, I just re-discovered most of my ref tracks, etc. If I get this again with an RME, damn that's awesome!

 

If the problem is audio cracking up when mixing, you turn the buffers UP , not down...
Sure , knobs react as slow as the buffer is set, but you will hit that limit with every system where theres nothing left to do but turn on longer buffers.

Maybe i misunderstand the issue here, but you ain't gunna mix a track with 70+ tracks and 50-80 plugins at a low latency.

 

Nope, thing is I'm mostly doing mixing, and when I'm producing I'm way more focused on meloding content and arrangement than sound design. So I can get away with having a 3xOsc lead with just a square and a touch of delay.

 

Yes, could be true. But simply from the logic how thunderbolt (added controller in the signal flow) works, I seriously doubt it is technically possible to have less latency with thunderbolt compared to pcie or usb.

 

Of course, the sensible point is mainly the ASIO driver (how it was developed and optimized). In my case I'm using FireWire 800 audio interface (Saffire Pro 14) and really I'm surprised (enjoyed) about this product. Using 64 samples for ASIO buffer works like a charm for live performance (keyboard, VSTi and some FXs) at 44.1 kHz. Also tested at 32, but I prefer to be cautious... For mixing session, around 15-25 tracks (both audio/MIDI/VSTiS/FXs) from DAW (REAPER) I set to 128 samples 88.2 kHz without any crackle/distortion (rendering @ 44.1 kHz 24-bit WAV/FLAC).

One important point is also the device drivers used by your motherboard (PCs), some drivers or utilies may cause a lot of DPCs - such ASUS DIP5 (Dual Intelligent Processor) - and DPCs are one of source of latency issues and ruins your system dedicated for C.M., trust me! (I've ban this - useless - crap named DIP5 from my system, after long investigation, two years ago). Any driver (such for printer, network or disk) may cause problem.

The audio interface I'm using is the first (previous was ASIO4ALL to my onbard sound card), by the way I've never used other model than Saffire PRO 14.

Don't forget this: In any scenario, either TB, FW 400/800, USB 2/3, PCIe, you add controller in the signal flow (any having a device driver, arent?).

 

Last edited: Jan 15, 2017

@RedThresh @Adorufu @DJSabreblade @dondada @superliquidsunshine

Common don't give bad posts like this a positive rating,

cpu says to your interface - "the daw wants DATA - sent it" is oversimplified.

connect a babyface to a pc then switch it to a focusrite.
the difference is massive.

 

I'm sorry, but, and? This is a fact, good for you if you're not in that case but dont say "Nope" to that, it's kind of irritating!

I never talked about low latency I don't care about it when I work with tons of plugins and process. All I need is a higher buffer and better driver build! I DONT have latency problem when I'm songwriting/recording live etc. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

That's what I thought first. And that's what I experienced with M-Audio drivers to MOTU drivers. I really might just simply go for a Babyface, was my original choice but those PCI-E RME cards are attractive!

 

Also I have some DPC checker software and I dont have high DPC latency/spikes, I had some but it got tuned out

 

But I never said there was.

If a sound system on the motherboard requires more CPU than an offboard dedicated one, then there certainly *is* an impact on the CPU. You can only spend a CPU cycle once.

 

TAFKAT's Updated Audio Interface Low Latency Performance Chart - 2016
Same numbers just a few new interfaces for comparison like the Roland Studio Capture, Steinberg UR44, Presonus Studio 192 and the Antelope Orion 32. Still don't see the Babyface Pro.

If you read through the original DAW bench article there's a quote that tells me that that at least one of the major manufacturers (or a rouge representative) isn't even concerned with optimizing inefficient drivers.

" The Low Latency Performance aspect that you are focusing on is irrelevant to the majority of end users, and your benchmarks are simply designed to baffle people with bullshit ! "

I think that quote is bull and wanted to thank you guys 'coz I've been learning a lot from this thread and since I've only used four different audio interfaces in my life, one of which was a Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS, I'm a little more aware.

 

yeah sorry mate i didnt read much into it and everything else was alright. i try to treat
everyone like mates at the table and some are bit ...lets say free with their language.
that doesnt make them less helpfull. and are still mates ;)
but you are right. i did change for the better here on audioz

if everything works great (no interference, mb, network and else) there should be no difference
but found this clip (last few min). while reserching the madi thing in the .ps yesterday
and i was wrong! there is a Madiface pro. still a babyface but madi instead of adat io ;)

maybe there wont be a big change, But the conversion is from rmes flagship converter

@Pinkman and everyon else interested
The Don Himself on Latency and vs Bandwith
Especialy @6,45


Good luck mate!

 

I went from a Focusrite Saffire 6 to a Babyface and noticed quite a difference in performance. I have a chance to get a barely used Babyface Pro for CHF 500 and beside the extra line in which I desperately need as well as the extra 10dB of gain for the super clean preamps, (I really like them with the Electro Voice RE-20, and now if I get it I won't need to use the FetHead any longer) I wonder if there will be a noticeable gain in performance. I have not yet seen a benchmark with the upgraded version.

 

@RedThresh .. The Babyface is brilliant and sounds/performs like a million bucks. However, I have found it's only weakness to be in headphone monitoring. I use Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones and even with these easily driven cans really need to push the volume to the limit to get loud enough sometimes.

 

hi mate
wow i cant put more than 20% on sony cdm 570 and big bad a&h xone dj headphones but thats with the old rme rpm
and the guy from the video said and did the same as me with the new one.
but that should be better now too if you belive the guy
maybe you can have a test run?

 

Ok then: What is your problem at all? I mean, if you have no latency problems, turn latency up to 4096 and you (almost) never hit 100% cpu, regardless which interface you're using.

You have up to 80 plugins running? Well, me too within a creative process (before optimizing/preparing for mastering) but I'm not going to have a 100% cpu *spike*. Either it's having 100% static load, but no spikes.

You wrote you're buffer size is 1024 and you can't go lower. Well, then you should consider to buy a new interface, it sounds not-that-good having at least a 1k buffer size.

However, I don't get the point now of this thread? It's not about latency!? What's the matter at all then? Please try to describe it in one sentence

 

Dude, please read posts

Well... Maybe, MAYBE because (As I said 3 times) the main driver of my MOTU cant go higher thant 1024, driver support is crap (2014 last update), etc. So, as you can read in main title, I'm looking for the card with best drivers performance for realtime processing (ie using tons of plugins while playing back) and knew there will be tons of help and advices for this, here

Sometimes more, biggest mix I had was a 8 minutes Koan Sound / Culprate inspired analo-electro-acoustic music with 110 tracks and more than 100 plugins. I had to split the mix process in two projects ONLY because of my soundcard. My CPU is an untouched beast.

So the main point was to know first what type of card provide best performance in this regard (PCIE, USB, FW), and has the best drivers. From the start I was thinking about the blue brand, wanted to know more about their PCIE products, and how a simple Babyface Pro compares to them!

 

I have the same feeling with my MOTU. Basic reference level for 90db SPL : -20dbFS. Basic reference level for Headset : -1dbFS

And that's with a Beyer with 16 ohm... I wonder how weak a 250ohm AKG would sound on it

 

Do you know by any chance the max buffer amount on the BBFace? Can't find it anywhere