R2R Plugins not working under Linux wine

Discussion in 'Linux' started by severance&pay, Dec 19, 2024.

Tags:
  1. tnc

    tnc Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    101
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Did you miss what has happened in the last year? :)
    Quite a lot of people have been switching. Even Windows-only people are now running Linux side-by-side.

    MS is losing their shit this year. MS is now forcing online account.
    Apple is getting worse as well according to a lot of developers. Lots of dev's are switching to Linux because
    the user experience is so much better. The tools are already there.

    Linux on Desktop is rising to above 5-6% of the Desktop market in 2025. 5 out of 100 people now run Linux on Desktop.
    Still small in comparison to Windows, but Mac only has about 15% (not talking about audio work here).

    Momentum comes when the tools people need can be run natively or without any glitchy workarounds on Linux - AND - when other OS's are getting worse by each release. Which has been happening for the last years, very obvious with Windows.

    A lot of tools are now multi-platform. Lot's of tools are based on things that can pretty easily be made to
    work for for Linux as well. I know one big DAW that is now considering Linux releases...
    Reaper and Bitwig are native on Linux since forever. Both are really good DAWs (although I don't like Reaper personally).

    There's still a gap in the audio industry, but hopefully this gap goes down further in the coming years.
    Lot's of Windows apps can run in Linux but I agree that sometimes there's issues.

    The only reason for me personally to still have a second Windows boot partition is to run Cubase, which
    is the DAW I know the best. But Bitwig works 100% good on Linux and I prefer using Linux since it is so much more effective
    and streamlined. It is more customizable to let my workflow be faster in all tasks.
    Linux has more useful tools than Windows has out-of-the-box for everyday work. EVERYTHING else than using Cubase
    can be done more efficiently on Linux..
    I run Bitwig and produce whole tracks with only a few external plugins, because I have everything I need (less options of
    third party plugins is a blessing for me when I'm in creative mode).
    The only high quality synths I install already have native CLAP and VST support for Linux.
    For mixing though, there's some tools that I miss. So I still mix in Cubase... :(
    Many of the Windows plugins can be run on Linux but I would not do it in a professional context since it is not officially supported...

    Another thing that will also shift the Deskop market: GAMING.
    Gaming already works perfectly in Linux (except for titles that requires anticheat/DRM software that gaming dev's haven't released for
    Linux yet - but will come since SteamOS is Linux).
    Checkout Bazzite https://bazzite.gg/. I was blown away when I installed it the first time. It just worked for all the games I tried, both new and older titles.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  2. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  3. tzzsmk

    tzzsmk Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2016
    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    2,687
    Location:
    Heart of Europe
    and this momentum isn't happening in 2025 no matter how big Linux hype is,
    speaking of OSes getting worse recently, I'd bet MacOS enshittification is kicking harder than Windows nowadays, Apple's combined obsession with security, dumbed down iOS and lackluster AI brings nothing good into MacOS future
     
  4. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
  5. AudioEnzyme

    AudioEnzyme Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2023
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    204
    All this reminds me of the late 90's when the tech boom was at it's height.
    Then also Linux was touted as the next big thing that's going to revolutionize everything , being free and what not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  6. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    The AI bubble is also getting bigger and bigger, and they're all falling far short of their expectations.
    Too little money is being made and too little investment is being made. But that doesn't mean AI is a flop...!
     
  7. ArticStorm

    ArticStorm Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,538
    Likes Received:
    4,480
    Location:
    AudioSexPro
    its a lot of work, since you have lots of plugin formats and for that you have to test 3 times most of time. macOS is even more complicated, since it depends quarterly upgrades. I remember ValhallaDSP writing that they had like 4 macOS versions installed to ensure their plugins work on that.

    So it is understandable, that most devs simply so no to Linux, because it is a lot of work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  8. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    If you think business-wise, Linux users are affluent customers and therefore a good business. U-HE, for example – an exemplary company from Berlin – has written all of its plugins for Linux as well. As Linux's market share increases, there will also be more Linux products. For some, the Linux market seems too small and, as @ArticStorm already described, there's too much unpaid work.
     
  9. xorome

    xorome Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2021
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    1,125
    Yeah, testing is a massive workload for serious developers.

    3-4 MacOS versions
    x2 Intel/Apple Silicon
    x4-5 most used Mac DAWs.

    Then do the same for Windows and Linux. You quickly end up having to test 100+ combinations if you want to ensure your plugin works for at least 90% of people.

    Windows is probably the least offensive OS out of the three, because there's really only W10 and W11 and you can pretty much ignore ARM for now.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
  10. deathroit

    deathroit Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2022
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    93

    What operating system and graphical environment do you have, and what versions of Wine and Yabridge are you using?

    • Yabridge with Wine versions higher than 9.21 (I'm writing from memory) has a problem with window positioning.

    • Some DEs and their compositors have a problem with displaying menus. I had a similar problem with xfce.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  11. ptepper

    ptepper Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2021
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    90
    And if the devs need a quick excuse, every forum on the internet is littered with that Linux-is-utter-garbage BS. No amount of legitimate positive accounts can compensate for the damage done by a handful of unscrupulous haters.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  12. forart.it

    forart.it Kapellmeister

    Joined:
    May 5, 2023
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    73
  13. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    I think many developers and experienced musicians are very familiar with the internet and its forums and know how much nonsense and half-knowledge, as well as myths and legends, are spread every day. I think it's quite clear that Linux is a viable alternative to Windows and macOS.

    In reality, Linux has evolved so well that it's much easier to play games and make music today. That wasn't the case at the beginning of Linux.

    Gamers made Windows big, and the rest are office workers who bought Windows licenses. The Windows empire is crumbling because many people are using alternative office software that's either open source or free. You've seen this with internet browsers, too. Microsoft's internet browser mandate was overturned by the courts, and now everyone can use the internet browser they need.

    Everyone is called upon to fight for the gift of the world wide web, or the free internet. Linux is a part of that and an alternative to the monopolistic Microsoft. Some technological advances sometimes take decades, and Linux will gain more market share.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  14. Xupito

    Xupito Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,669
    Likes Received:
    4,233
    Location:
    Europe
    I see quite a few "overly-positive" posts about Linux.
    Even being myself positively half-drunk right now I disagree.
    The only way Linux can gain a significant share of Windows/MacOS market is if SteamOS succeeds big time for PCs and unifies a lot of the fragmentation problems.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  15. Friendelek

    Friendelek Platinum Record

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2020
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    172
    Agree with you.

    I would like to hear the opinion of our forum users on this issue.
    Do you think that if Linux reaches the same market share percentage as MacOS, will developers start supporting native plugins for Linux?
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    • List
  16. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    @Friendelek, attached is the result of an AI query:
    Size of the Music Market for Linux Plugins (VST and VST3)
    The global market for audio plugins, including VST and VST3 formats used in digital audio workstations (DAWs) like Ableton, Reaper, or Bitwig, is a subset of the broader music production software industry. Based on recent market reports, the global audio plugin market size ranges from approximately $1.1 billion to $4.94 billion USD in 2023-2024, with projections for growth to $2.28 billion to $5.65 billion by 2025-2033, reflecting a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 7-15%. This growth is driven by the rise of home recording, digital music production, and integration with AI-enhanced tools, with VST/VST3 being the dominant formats across platforms.

    For Linux specifically, the market is niche and lacks dedicated large-scale reports, but estimates can be derived from OS usage in music production. Linux holds about 5-10% of the desktop market share in audio production surveys, compared to Windows (46%) and macOS (27%). Overall Linux desktop usage is around 4-5%, but it's gaining traction in creative fields due to open-source tools like Ardour and Bitwig. Applying this to the global plugin market suggests a Linux-specific segment of roughly $50-500 million USD, leaning toward the lower end ($100-200 million) given that many Linux users rely on compatibility layers like Wine or Yabridge for non-native plugins rather than native VST/VST3 options. Native Linux plugins (e.g., via LV2 or VST3 ports using frameworks like JUCE) are increasing, but the ecosystem remains smaller than Windows/macOS, which dominate 70-80% of pro audio usage.

    Aspect Global Audio Plugin Market Linux-Specific (Estimated)
    Current Size (2024-2025)
    $1.1-4.94B USD $50-500M USD (5-10% share)
    Projected Size (2030-2033) $2.28-6.65B USD $100-700M USD (similar growth trajectory)
    CAGR 7-15% 10-20% (faster due to Linux adoption trends)
    Key Formats VST/VST3 (primary) VST3 (growing via cross-platform tools), LV2 (native Linux standard)
    User Base 50-100M+ music producers globally 5-10% of audio pros (e.g., 2-5M users)
    Drivers DAW integration, AI tools, home studios Open-source communities, PipeWire audio server improvements

    Is It a Growth Market for Developers?
    Yes, the Linux market for VST/VST3 plugins represents a growth opportunity for developers, particularly those focusing on open-source, cross-platform, or niche tools, though it's still emerging and community-driven compared to the more commercial Windows/macOS ecosystems. Key factors supporting growth include:

    • Rising Plugin Availability and Initiatives: There's been a noticeable uptick in native Linux plugins since 2022-2023, fueled by frameworks like JUCE (for VST3 cross-compilation) and community efforts. The Linux Audio Plugin Development (LAPD) initiative, launched in 2025, provides resources for porting, tutorials, and encouraging vendors to support Linux, addressing historical gaps in plugin compatibility.
    • Linux Adoption Trends: Linux desktop market share has grown to over 2.3% (e.g., on Steam), with projections for 20%+ increase by 2030, attracting more budget-conscious producers and open-source enthusiasts to DAWs like Reaper or Ardour. In music production, user satisfaction is high (around 80% in surveys), but lack of native plugins is a top challenge—creating demand for developers.
    • Development Ecosystem: Tools like DPF for LV2/VST3 plugins and PipeWire (a modern audio server) lower barriers for entry. A 2025 study on VST plugin development practices highlights interdisciplinary growth, with GitHub repos showing increased activity in Linux-compatible projects. Revenue often comes from donations, open-source contributions, or hybrid models (e.g., LSP Plugins or u-he ports), rather than high-volume sales.
    • Challenges and Outlook: While growth is positive (potentially outpacing the global 7-15% CAGR due to underserved demand), hardware support and commercial incentives lag behind. Developers succeeding here often start with cross-platform releases and tap into communities like r/linuxaudio (18k+ members).
    For developers, it's a viable niche if you leverage open-source models—e.g., starting with JUCE for VST3 ports or contributing to LAPD. The market's expansion aligns with broader Linux trends, making it attractive for long-term bets. If you need specifics on tools or examples, let me know!
     
  17. ptepper

    ptepper Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2021
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    90
    Some of them would. The others would have plenty of excuses and would keep waiting.

    MacOS is perceived as the choice of the affluent segment of society, that's where the money is.

    Linux keeps fighting with prejudices, one of them being that its users expect everything for free.

    There's plenty of evidence, on this forum, for example, that at least when it comes to music production the picture is not that black and white, but also that preconceived notions die hard.
     
  18. PulseWave

    PulseWave Audiosexual

    Joined:
    May 4, 2025
    Messages:
    2,108
    Likes Received:
    1,176
    The more expensive, inferior, and outrageous Microsoft and macOS become, or in other words, if things continue like this and people run out of money, the more Linux's market share will increase.

    Economically speaking, people are getting poorer and poorer. Inflation, recession, unemployment, they simply won't have the money to buy luxuries, and that will automatically lead to Linux and Team R2R. It's a gradual process.

    Just look again in a few years and see how much money people have in their pockets. Things are being leased and no longer purchased. Rents are rising, energy is getting more expensive... Linux is winning, cracked software is winning... Linux is getting better and better. It just takes time. We'll see more Linux users, perhaps with a dual-boot system, Linux for the internet and Windows for gaming. Or offline PCs.

    In 2025, Linux will increasingly be perceived as a relevant alternative in the desktop space, primarily due to issues such as data protection, digital sovereignty, and optimized hardware support. Nevertheless, market shares remain low, especially in music production, as macOS and Windows dominate, and Linux is still rarely used, especially in professional and hobbyist studios. Musicians can certainly earn money with native and compatible plugins on Linux, and VSTs and VSTis are now also available, although there are limitations with some copy protection methods and audio interfaces.

    Data protection, sustainability, and digital sovereignty are becoming increasingly important in society, which is why Linux is being used by more and more individuals and companies.

    The upcoming changes in the Windows universe—such as hardware requirements and the end of support for Windows 10—are leading to increased migration to Linux.

    Market-relevant areas such as cloud computing, IoT, and AI development are further fueling growth; Forecasts predict global revenue of USD 99.69 billion by 2032, with an annual growth rate of 20.9 percent.

    Market share and situation of music production with Linux

    Linux plays a niche role in music production and, measured against the overall market, only accounts for a very small share. Exact figures vary widely and are rarely published across the industry.

    Windows and macOS continue to lead the way in studio setups, with Linux being used primarily where openness, cost-effectiveness, and control over the software are more important.

    The market for audio software under Linux is growing, particularly due to improvements in the Linux sound server Pipewire, which now enables real-time audio without a special kernel and further increases compatibility.

    Earning money with Linux plugins/VSTis/VSTs

    With native Linux plugins (LADSPA/LV2) and open-source DAWs such as Ardour, as well as Wine-compatible VSTs, professional music production and monetization are now possible.

    Limitations This still applies to plugins with special license or dongle hardware (iLok, etc.), as not all copy protection mechanisms work under Linux.

    The range and quality of Linux music software have improved; high-quality open source alternatives are available, but commercial revenues are expected to be higher primarily with cross-platform or specifically Windows/Mac products.
    Linux therefore remains innovative, and music production benefits from new technologies, but it still has a lower commercialization prospect than established platforms such as Windows and macOS.
    Advantages of Using Linux for Music Production Linux is generally considered very stable.

    Furthermore, Linux requires significantly fewer system resources than MacOS or Windows. This is also the reason why Linux is used on small computers like the Raspberry Pi. This allows you to customize the core of the operating system to your own needs. There are special distributions for music production. Seriously, there's practically an operating system that's been configured precisely to make music perfectly. Because the core uses real-time calculations, and drivers for audio interfaces are preconfigured to achieve better performance than ever under Windows or Mac.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2025 at 9:27 AM
  19. clone

    clone Audiosexual

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2021
    Messages:
    9,216
    Likes Received:
    4,026
    I've been hearing every couple of years that "this year is the year Linux finally gets widely accepted for use in serious audio production!" for about 25 years. It's never going to happen. Look at the website you are here because of. In a competitive field, where almost every producer is looking for some kind of new technology, plugin, hardware, samples, whatever the case may be; do you really expect anyone to say let's wait ten years so Audio Production on Linux can catch up? Absolutely not. There is 0 monetary incentive for the manufacturers (of anything) to do so. Do you think musicians who either want to record and produce at home, or any studios, believe they somehow get a pass when the output is not up to par? Good luck with that. The days of anyone saying "wow, they made this entire record with Buzz!" are vamoose.

    Almost no one cares about impressive uptime stats vs Winblows. They care about the perceived output they will get from the gear and the software. Development is going to stay behind something close to forever. It turns out that for commercial audio software development, the actual problem with open-source software is that there is still almost no money in it.
     
  20. ItsFine

    ItsFine Rock Star

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    480
    Linux just doesn't work for audio, especially when you use WINDOWS vsts in it.
    And pretending being against WINDOWS.
    That's called HYPOCRISY.

    And speaking about money in this situation is a joke.
    Because you can get a legit second hand windows licence for 5 bucks.
    And because SOFTWARES are not going to be free.
    That's why this thread is about running WINDOWS R2R plugins in Wine ... so against "windows" ...

    Forget about Linux for audio.
    And if you already use scene R2R plugins ... just get a scene windows release.

    I'm bored (and not the only one) about ppl trying to run Linux for music making and flooding the forum, whereas it obviously DON'T WORK.
    And using the moral argument for using scene releases into a WINDOWS ecosystem on Linux.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 6
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • List
Loading...
Loading...