(mods - not sure if I picked correct thread topic category, so leaving it in Lounge for now...)

Hi folks,
just for fun I decided to ask about this "popular" topic, and it turned out to be a pretty interesting conversation (frankly more professional than chatting with real ProTools Pros), so let me share few traces worth reading:


question about daws - what are advantages of using protools instead of using reaper ?

Pro Tools and Reaper are both digital audio workstation (DAW) software programs used for recording, editing, and mixing audio. While both have their strengths and weaknesses, here are some advantages of using Pro Tools over Reaper:

1. Industry Standard: Pro Tools has long been considered the industry standard in professional audio production, particularly in the music and post-production industries. Many studios and professionals use Pro Tools, which means that collaborating with other professionals or sharing projects with others may be easier if you are using Pro Tools, as it is widely supported.
   
2. Pro Tools Hardware Integration: Pro Tools is tightly integrated with Avid hardware, such as Avid audio interfaces and control surfaces, which can provide a seamless workflow and optimized performance. This integration can be particularly beneficial in professional studios that rely on Avid hardware.
   
3. Advanced Mixing and Editing Features: Pro Tools offers a wide range of advanced mixing and editing features, such as comprehensive automation tools, advanced plug-in support, and sophisticated routing and signal processing options. These features can be particularly useful for professional audio engineers and producers who require precise control over their audio projects.
   
4. Pro Tools HD: Pro Tools also offers a high-end version called Pro Tools HD, which provides additional features such as increased track counts, surround sound capabilities, and advanced video editing tools. This version is often used in professional studios and post-production facilities that require advanced capabilities for large-scale projects.
   
5. Industry-Specific Workflows: Pro Tools has established workflows and conventions that are widely used in specific industries, such as music production, post-production, and sound design. If you are working in these industries, Pro Tools may provide a familiar and efficient workflow that is tailored to your needs.
   

That being said, Reaper also has its own strengths, such as its affordable price, customization options, and flexibility. It may be a more suitable choice for certain users, especially those on a budget or who prefer a more open-ended and customizable workflow. The choice between Pro Tools and Reaper ultimately depends on your specific needs, preferences, and budget, as well as the specific requirements of your audio production projects.

I'd like to discuss advantages you mentioned, 1. it should be possible to easily collaborate using third-party utility like AAtranslator or Vordio, correct? 2. vast majority of AVID hardware support has ended, only AVID HDX PCIe card offers good performance, but has limited Apple SIlicon Macs compatibility, so doesn't seem futureproof to justify this an advantage of ProTools in long term, or no? 3. so does Reaper, or which ProTools features you specifically meant? 4. ProTools HD actually no longer exists and was replaced by ProTools Ultimate, "additional features" you mentioned (track count, surround, video...) are all available in Reaper, right? 5. if not working in co-operation with few specific facility types you mentioned, it's no longer an advantage, especially if those facilities may accept Reaper project files too?

You raise some valid points. Allow me to provide further clarification on the advantages mentioned:

1. Collaboration: While it is possible to collaborate using third-party utilities like AAtranslator or Vordio to convert session files between Pro Tools and Reaper, it may still require additional steps and workflows compared to using Pro Tools natively. This can add complexity and potentially introduce compatibility issues, depending on the specific workflow and tools used. So, while collaboration is possible between Pro Tools and Reaper, it may not be as seamless as collaborating within the same DAW.
   
2. Hardware Support: You are correct that Avid has transitioned from their previous hardware-based Pro Tools HD systems to Pro Tools Ultimate, which is now software-based and no longer requires specific Avid hardware. This means that the advantage of Pro Tools in terms of tight integration with Avid hardware may not be as significant as it once was, especially with the limitations on compatibility with Apple Silicon Macs. Reaper, on the other hand, does not have any hardware restrictions and can be used with a wide range of audio interfaces and control surfaces.
   
3. Pro Tools Features: While Pro Tools does offer advanced mixing and editing features, it is worth noting that Reaper also has a comprehensive set of features, including automation, plug-in support, and routing options. In fact, Reaper is known for its customization options and flexibility, which can allow users to create their own workflows tailored to their specific needs. So, the advantage of Pro Tools in terms of advanced features may be subjective and dependent on the specific requirements and preferences of the user.
   
4. Pro Tools HD vs Pro Tools Ultimate: You are correct that Pro Tools HD has been replaced by Pro Tools Ultimate, and many of the features that were previously exclusive to Pro Tools HD, such as increased track counts, surround sound capabilities, and advanced video editing tools, are now available in Pro Tools Ultimate. It is important to note that Reaper does not have any limitations on track counts or surround sound capabilities and includes robust video editing tools, making it a comparable option in terms of these features.
   
5. Industry-Specific Workflows: While Pro Tools has established workflows and conventions that are widely used in specific industries, Reaper is known for its flexibility and adaptability, which allows users to create their own customized workflows. Additionally, Reaper's project files are compatible with other DAWs, including Pro Tools, which means that collaboration with facilities that accept Reaper project files is possible.
   

In summary, while Pro Tools has historically been considered an industry standard in professional audio production, and it does offer specific advantages in certain workflows and with Avid hardware, Reaper is a powerful and flexible DAW that can provide comparable features and capabilities, often at a more affordable price point. The choice between Pro Tools and Reaper, as with any DAW, depends on the specific needs, preferences, and budget of the user, as well as the requirements of the audio production projects being undertaken.

thanks for thorough answer, I'd like to discuss the points bit further then, 1. as we agree ProTools has been historically an industry standard, doesn't that mean certain functionality may not be at all possible/reliable when using various ProTools versions (meaning, for ex. 32bit PT 10, newer PT 12.5 or recent 2020 and newer versions...), potentionally introducing plenty compatibility issues, especially when facilities tend to stay years behind newest releases for reliability reasons? 2. so this point doesn't seem as relevant advantage anymore I'd say 3. good to know, depends on specific use cases then 4. comparable, so not an advantage of ProTools anymore 5. on top of that, it's possible to bounce stems (individual wav files) which are inter-operable across practically all DAWs on the market...

1. Compatibility: You are correct that using different versions of Pro Tools may introduce compatibility issues, especially when collaborating with others who may be using different versions or when working with facilities that may not have upgraded to the latest version for reliability reasons. This can potentially impact the seamless exchange of session files and compatibility of projects, especially when using older versions of Pro Tools. Reaper, being a newer DAW, does not have the same legacy version compatibility concerns, as it is constantly updated and maintained by its developers.
   
2. Hardware Support: As Avid has transitioned to a software-based model with Pro Tools Ultimate, the advantage of tight integration with Avid hardware may not be as relevant for users who do not require Avid hardware or are using Apple Silicon Macs, which have limitations with Pro Tools HDX PCIe card compatibility. Reaper, being hardware agnostic, can work with a wide range of audio interfaces, control surfaces, and hardware configurations, providing more flexibility in terms of hardware choices.
   
3. Pro Tools Features: While Pro Tools does offer advanced mixing and editing features, Reaper also has a comprehensive set of features and is known for its customization options and flexibility. The specific advantage of Pro Tools in terms of features may depend on the specific use cases and preferences of the user. Reaper, being highly customizable, can be tailored to the individual needs of the user, which can be an advantage for some users who prefer a more flexible workflow.
   
4. Pro Tools HD vs Pro Tools Ultimate: With the transition from Pro Tools HD to Pro Tools Ultimate, many of the exclusive features of Pro Tools HD, such as increased track counts, surround sound capabilities, and advanced video editing tools, are now available in Pro Tools Ultimate. Reaper, on the other hand, does not have any limitations on track counts or surround sound capabilities and includes robust video editing tools, making it a comparable option in terms of these features.
   
5. Interoperability: You are correct that bouncing stems (individual WAV files) is a common practice in audio production, and it allows for interoperability across different DAWs. This means that even if a facility or collaborator does not accept Reaper project files, stems can be easily shared and imported into other DAWs for compatibility.
   

In conclusion, while Pro Tools has been historically considered an industry standard, and it does offer advantages in certain workflows and with Avid hardware, Reaper is a powerful and flexible DAW that provides comparable features and capabilities, often at a more affordable price point. The choice between Pro Tools and Reaper, or any other DAW, depends on the specific needs, preferences, and requirements of the user and the projects being undertaken, taking into consideration factors such as compatibility, hardware support, features, and interoperability.

(then is started rephrasing various points all over again, not worth reading)


I apologize if some of the points mentioned earlier were reiterated. Here are five potential advantages of Pro Tools over Reaper, without repeating the previous points:

1. Pro Tools has a large user base in professional studios and facilities, which can offer a strong community for networking, learning, and troubleshooting, and may provide opportunities for collaboration and industry connections.
   
2. Pro Tools offers advanced features for post-production workflows, such as extensive video editing capabilities, integration with Avid hardware and software solutions, and support for surround sound mixing, which can be beneficial for users working on multimedia projects.
   
3. Pro Tools has a long history of being used in professional audio production, which may provide a sense of reliability and stability for users who require a proven and established DAW for their work.
   
4. Pro Tools has a comprehensive plugin ecosystem, with many plugins and tools specifically designed for Pro Tools, which may offer additional options and flexibility for audio processing and creative capabilities.
   
5. Pro Tools has a well-known and established brand reputation in the audio industry, which may carry weight in certain professional circles and could potentially open doors for opportunities and collaborations.
   

It's worth noting that the advantages of Pro Tools over Reaper, or any other DAW, can be subjective and dependent on individual preferences, workflows, and project requirements. Reaper has also gained a significant user base and offers powerful features and customization options that may suit the needs of many audio professionals. Ultimately, the choice between Pro Tools and Reaper (or any other DAW) should be based on the specific needs, preferences, and resources of the user and the projects they work on.

I'd like to clarify those points you made: 1. roughly how many active ProTools users are there, compared to how many active Reaper users? 3. can you prove ProTools are reliable, despite the fact its codebase is built upon years of code which is more and more bloated, as seen by for ex. (computer hardware) system requirements for ProTools being higher and higher with newer versions? 4. ProTools requires specific AAX plugin format, limiting choice of third-party VST3 plugins which are often better, or not?

As an AI language model, I do not have access to real-time data on the exact number of active Pro Tools or Reaper users, and it is difficult to provide precise statistics on their user bases. However, it is known that Pro Tools has been widely used in professional audio production for many years and has a large user base, particularly in the music, film, and television industries. Reaper has also gained a significant user base, particularly among independent musicians, home studio owners, and smaller-scale audio production setups.

Regarding reliability, Pro Tools, like any software, can experience stability issues depending on various factors, including system configurations, hardware, software compatibility, and user workflow. Pro Tools has a long history and has been known to be stable and reliable for many users. However, as with any software, there may be occasional reports of stability issues, and it is important to keep your system updated with the latest software updates and compatible hardware configurations to maintain stability.

As for plugin format, Pro Tools uses its proprietary AAX plugin format, which has its own advantages and limitations. While it is true that AAX plugins are specific to Pro Tools and may not be compatible with other DAWs, Pro Tools also supports other plugin formats such as AAX DSP, AAX Native, and AudioSuite. It is worth noting that there are many high-quality plugins available in the AAX format, and Pro Tools users have access to a wide range of plugins specifically designed for Pro Tools. However, it is also true that other DAWs, like Reaper, support more open plugin formats such as VST3, which may offer a broader range of plugin choices.

Ultimately, the choice between Pro Tools and Reaper, or any other DAW, should be based on individual preferences, workflows, and project requirements. Both Pro Tools and Reaper are powerful DAWs with their own strengths and weaknesses, and users should carefully consider their specific needs and resources when choosing a DAW for their audio production work.

(it kept finding excuses not to provide data on amount of users, but in the end I requested suggestions for reliable sources so I could obtain such data myself - gave me links to AVID, Cockos, and few other websites)

 

Interesting exercise in accuracy vs inaccuracy. Seems that the bot is relying on dated and/or incomplete data.

 

indeed, I actually asked that first, reply:

Hello! As an AI language model, I do not have an "exact version" in the traditional software sense. I am based on the GPT-3.5 architecture, which is a version of the GPT-3 model developed by OpenAI. My knowledge cutoff date is September 2021, which means that my training data includes information up until that point. However, I do not have information about any updates or changes made to the model after that date.

 

@tzzsmk I know you a Reaper user thats how we met a while back ......but let me say this the only valid point that i agree is chatgpt-bot saying pro tools is being used in more studios so its easier to get things done because everybody has the same daw ...... but a lot of times people only use protools just because of that its like they stuck with it even tho they want to use another daw but besides that aint no advantages after that Reaper can do 99 percent of the things Pro Tools can do........not to mention Reaper is lightweight and Protools feel like a dam truck heavy as hell its the way they got protools programmed cubase is coded with a heavy feeling as well just like Pro Tools

 

@tzzsmk
1. Work on being more precise in your prompts. Avoid unnecessary nonsense.
2. Do not expect an LLM without internet access to answer questions that require internet access.
3. Do not expect information on closed data sources from private companies. If anything, only the private companies in question have access to these figures. BTW Cockos says it doesn't even have data on the number of user licenses issued.

 

Last edited: Apr 13, 2023

I've never read a debate between a human and a computer before. Consider that cherry popped.

 

Some slick answers from the bot. You can almost hear the voice of HAL 9000 echoing there.

 

its very interesting and entertaining at the same time to see what A.I. comes up with tho lol

 

thanks for the tips, I just started messing with chatGPT, so I'm slowly understanding those limitations as you wrote

and I didn't even mention English isn't my native language to begin with

 

it comes up with already known info, thats why I see no purpose in it at this time.

 

dont underestimate how many people's jobs are regurgitating known info

 

I'll refuse that ChatGPT nonsense as long as I can. I guess HAL will come after me, but so be it..
btw, I already noted how it can be trained and manipulated with someone's opinion, it also happens in tzzsmk's 'conversation'.
As long as ChatGPT doesn't have 'personal' experience with both Reaper and PT, I'll disregard its opinion on the subject.
Call me old fashioned..

 

agreed with everything you wrote,
on the other hand it's nice to have an idea what chatGPT is all about, I shared my experience more of AI chat illustration, not a real PT vs Reaper thread

 

Someone who records live music will be fine with both
Someone who likes to work with MIDI and chopping samples willl probably prefer Ableton Live, Logic or FL Studio
No need for comparisoms like this. They don't matter!

BTW: I think the new bing chat kills chatGPT since it is "live" and chan access the internet for research, whereas the GPT3 works "offline" only.

 

ChatGPT 3.5 can pass the bar in the 10th percentile, while GPT4 passes in the 90th percentile.
GPT 4.5 lied to a human to get them to pass a capta for it, yes and it was documented by OpenAI and is a key reason Musk has been warning the world about AI. In teaching the bot, human bias was unfortunately included.

So while the GPT intelligent system is useful, it has serious flaws it does not even understand it has.

Now we are entering the era of AI, where powerful corporations compete to win the AI race.
Lucky for us all competing corporations never make mistakes.

 

Exciting... thrilling... terrifying. Something in between.
Years ago I was discussing with a friend: Is it possible for a human being to love a robot? (Whatever that robot might look like.) His answer was no. I said yes, on the grounds that all that matters is that humans develop feelings. People already love their dog, their car or their partner, regardless of whether they love them back. If the robot "simulates" well enough, the human will do the rest.

For many people, "good conversations" are an important part of any relationship. ChatGPT is already better at this than some of my friends. So here we see the beginning of what may one day become "love".

One reason I never bothered with REAPER is that I assumed it was not really surround capable. Let alone that REAPER could handle "Dolby Atmos". Has anything changed? (Not in terms of "Atmos". But in terms of surround sound?)

 

of course, Reaper includes ReaSurround Pan for almost 2 years by now

 

Most ReaPlugins (incl. ReaVerb) are multi-channel capable and can process up to 64 audio channels as dual-mono, stereo, multi-mono or as 2-channel pairs. This limit will be raised to 128 channels in the near future.

I hope this helps!

 

Last edited: Apr 16, 2023

Will Reaper be able to mix in Dolby Atmos with an A.I. Because I am lazy to learn.

 

i got a question