Yea I know I have this down and also know the minor key second chord is diminished vs the major it will be the last chord, and the 1 4 5 will always be minor in minor key and major in major.. But I want to know straight away when I hit a g major etc regardless of wheter im transposed or not, I know what chord im playing, this is the only area transpose is counter-intuitive. But learning the I IV V is a good start..

 

I have some software that spits out chord info which I use occasionally for obscure fingerings, but if you think in relative terms it doesn't really matter, as a V chord is a dominant in any key However, it's also useful to keep a chord chart handy showing all the keys as a reference.

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

This is all great information from obviously skilled composers and producers. Well done. I want to share something I feel might be useful to you on your journey as well. Keep in mind my background was classically trained concert pianist to shifting through rock, jazz, fusion, before finally settling into modern pop which I am currently producing.

TL;DR version: find out what music your singer is trying to copy, edit the crap you hate out of the melody and keep the best stuff, play single note independent song ideas while listening to the vocal and solidify an arrangement with a chordal instrument last.

I get hired a lot to do the "pump this up" trick and take a song that the label or management already like but may have arrangement or composition problems keeping it from finding wider acceptance. While there are many methods to use (depending on what needs to be done) I almost ALWAYS begin with the solo lead vocal stem (or voice memo from the writing session) playing acapella so maybe some of my tricks might be useful to you.

1.) FIND THE VISION - when any artist or singer is relaying a melody... I would argue they are singing in their head (consciously or sub-consciously) in harmony to what they 'hear' as the right and true accompaniment; whatever that may be. The more in-tune an artist, the more accuracy they will reflect in identifying their musical "reference" to which they are creating their current sound. An easy place to start is to ask (or trick heehe) the artist into telling you what they are listening to... more like what they LOVE listening to you. It is likely they are attempting to imitate an existing musical idea they heard somewhere else recently or a deeply sub-conscious musical idea they grew up listening to.

If you were to make a quick playlist and listen to those songs, you might actually notice similarities in the melodic or lyrical style of they solo acapella you are building an arrangement under. Once you hear anything familiar, you have a dead giveaway on where the artist INTENDED to go with the song. You then might take cues from the musical ideas presented in those reference tracks, adding your own musical sauce in the mix, to hit the right mark and deliver to the artist.

2.) FIND THE FOCUS - I have NEVER met a singer who presented a vocal melody to me in a writing session or otherwise, fully-formed, fully consistent, that did not need to be changed or corrected. This has nothing to do with the artist being stupid, incompetent, or uninspired and more to do with the general condition of human fallibility and attention span. Most of the time, there is a MOMENT or a few moments during the course of a musical idea where the creative stars align and create a genuine, authentic creative expression... the rest being... uninspired noise.

Don't be afraid to throw out failed melodic ideas in favor of simple, more profound "moments" you might be able to enhance or stretch out (use melodyne or other). Hopefully you can get the rest of it to "agree" with those magical moments so they happen more frequently and you can build a musical case for why the listener should make it through the track. Also, if you hate anything in the melody you are hearing... deal with it; as in get it out of the song. Chances are if it rubs you the wrong way... you are gonna have lots of other people that want to scream inside as well.

3.) FIND THE COMPLEMENT - I'll assume you are going to keep the melody you are given... or have taken the best parts that you love. Depending on what style the music is in, you might vary on what instrument you use... but consider taking a piano, synth bass or cello line or something that can give you solid TONE to just start playing SINGLE note ideas underneath the melody. Many times, your brain will fill in the rest of the track and tell you when something "sounds good" or sounds right; usually without adding any other notes. Follow those cues and let the dopamine lead you to a great song... that's where "the feel" comes in that people are talking about. Great music hits our brain's reward system hard and triggers that pleasurable release of dopamine when things get "good".

The more "in-tune" you are to how great music AFFECTS you, the easier time you will have in MAKING music that reproduces the same exact effects in you and, depending on your taste, other people as well. IMPORTANT: Try to keep a pattern going in how often the phrase of the arrangement cycles for repeat, and the time at which a complete melody idea is cycled and repeated. If you listen to big songs, you will find the bass line has a repeating cycle much of the time. You will also find that there are many different melodies presented at different times in the song over the SAME bass line.. however they all complete themselves (or feel "finished" and ready to repeat again) at exactly the same amount of bars it takes for the complete chord progression or baseline to turn around. Sometimes this is a two-bar phrase and sometimes a four-bar phrase.

Try to align your the phrase of your production with the part of the melody you LIKE THE MOST... because it is very likely your artist gave you a vocal with competing phrase lengths and unfinished melodies. The easiest type of song to land in your case is going to be a song that has a repeatable bass line that never changes; ever. There are tons of big songs that don't change the chord phrase for the entire length of the song (or give you the illusion that nothing changes as in "Hello" / Kurstin for Adele).

Use this to your advantage and start with the simplest repeatable idea on the bass line that you can afford melodically. Then MAKE IT SOLID... and force the rest of the vocal melody to conform and relate to the standard you created.. hoping you solidified the chorus or hook section of your song first, and working outwards from there.. deleting (or editing the melody) the song every step of the way. My favorite DAW tool is the X icon (mute).

4.) FIND THE CHORDS - After you have the bass line (or even simple chords) solid, many times, you are a single note away from defining what type of chord (major, minor) you need; major or minor. A good hint is that great melody tends to shift constantly between notes that rest IN the chord (actually harmonize within a major or minor triad) and OUT of the chord to create a suspension. Commonly known as tension and release. So to find a chord to use, pay attention to the moments where the melody STAYS in place for a second; or LANDS after a traveling rapidly through a few notes. Those moments should be most-often the times where a melody falls INTO the structure of the chord; release.

The tension is the unsettling or "temporary" positions the melody visits on its way to the resting place of harmony. The more OBVIOUS and simple your tension release is the more readily accessible it becomes. However, there are tons of amazingly complex tension and release structures that exist in many number 1 hit songs (check the bass line against the melody of "Love me like you do" written for Ellie Goulding) In pop, when we we use mostly 2nds and 4ths followed by major 7s and minor 7s, and most rarely the dreaded major 6 and dominant 7 while creating tension to be released.

In the release portion of the melody we land commonly on major third intervals (relative to the bass note), minor third intervals (especially when you are in a minor tonic, the tonic itself (the bass note that identifies the center of the harmonic structure), and the fifth. If you correctly identify the moments you know for sure NEED a solid released chordal sound... you are only one note from identifying it as a full chord. Once you have a few of those moments figured out.. you just need to find out how to GET THERE... which isn't as hard as it sounds.. honestly an easy way is to know or figure out the most common chord progressions used in the music you love (or the reference you discovered) and compare the moments you already know sound good to the completed arrangements on finished songs.. then copy how the other songs are getting into and out of the chord you are in.

Heck, you might even start by just playing the melody (or the actual song sample) to another great song immediately underneath the melody you have been given. If you are tech-savy you may even have an entire library of song stems, mastered hit songs in wav format, you can easily cut up / beat match and paste underneath the song so you can hear how well the melody works in different context.

Depending on how good you want to get at this, there are hundreds of things you could start to notice about other great songs and use those techniques in your own music to achieve the same effect; especially regarding the chord arrangement relative to the melody. Wish you the best on your journey my friend.

 

This:

And the mega post of Kapatron above me.

It's all about the big picture. What kind of story do you want to tell? What do you want people to feel when they listen to your music?
In the most simple form minor is used for sadness and major for happiness.

Listen to what I just created. Same vocals, same key, you choose the chords that emphasize the feeling you're trying to create.

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

Bravo, very elegantly stated

I tried to elude to the dancing in and out of the chord tones and non-chord tones above, but not with the same clarity I am not a skilled musician but with my transposition method and thinking in relative terms, it is always obvious to me when you are in or out of the chord tones, and your fingers find these notes instinctively depending on the feel of the piece. This was the moment that the penny dropped for me, and it is now a joy to work on new melody phrases that almost play themselves. BTW isn't topline writing huge in the higher echelons of the music business?

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

I've posted this before regarding repeating basslines, but worth another look considering the context of this discussion

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

Even scarier is the great misconception people make about what theory is and the purpose it serves.

 

The end result is what matters, how you get there is of no consequence. I have different skills to you, therefore I see things in different ways. Not everybody is the same. There are related disciplines with transferable skill sets. Let's just say I utilize some of them

 

I don't know why you answered my statement, also don't understand the link between what I said and what you're saying so.. sorry but I can't really comment on that.

 

Could you please explain this a little further and give some examples?

 

Easiest most blatant example I can think of right now.. Guitar players!

It's very common to find guitar players that have a false sense of "I got it" just because they memoried many scales/shapes but in the end, they aren't satisfied with what they're playing. More often than not, the problem is the lack of attention to note placement, the "where/when". Going up and down a scale randomly won't help.

To gain awareness over this matter and turn scales into phrasing, one should study about the horizontal aspect (time) and that's where rhythm, weak vs strong beats and leading/passing/chord/non-chord tones come into play.

 

Yes I agree, you need to be aware of many factors, and luckily my framework allows me to pay close attention to that. Random up and downs are a big no-no for me. I like to duck in and out of the chord tones as per Kapatron's explanation. I also pay attention to the natural rhythm of words and phrases. I combine spontaneity with analysis, and I have some iterative development techniques.

 

You quoted me, but your answer is not turned against me, is it? At least I don't see the point you are making regarding me?

 

It's not against you, it's towards what you said.

You gave the typical speech of people who think music theory is like a recipe and that people who deal with it are just following instructions on how to build a puzzle. Couldn't be farther from the truth but you'll only get it once you really get into theory.

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

What I said wasn't a general statement. It was a reaction to this exact topic, more precise, to the answers of the original question. I saw tables and hints regarding which chords belong together, etc. All I wanted to say is that bringing this to the foreground misses the important part. I mean, at least for me, music is about expressing feelings. But a lot of the answers gave the impression that it's just a matter of working through a table. Of course it helps if you have the theory background, but it's not the key element. You just naturally fall into chord progressions, and I use my own "feel" (I don't know the correct translation) when playing or editing notes (I mostly play a short bit behind, and my swing is somewhere between shuffle and triplets, just as an example), which is important to let the music live, give room to certain instruments (play a guitar-sound on a piano and exactly on the beat - it will sound horrible) and have that certain magic that you can't really focus on, yet makes a song special.
But you do all of that naturally, if you are really into music. That's how I experience it. Let's just say, the theory doesn't disappear, it's still working subtly, when someone makes music who hasn't learned about music theory in the traditional way.

With just a little edit, I would completely agree to the very first comment you made: "Vocals are melody, basically you should [here's my edit] harmonize it."

Or Qaiss: "Listen to what I just created. Same vocals, same key, you choose the chords that emphasize the feeling you're trying to create." That's what I wanted to point at. I think that's more important than learning why you do what you do.

I'm not claiming to know the only truth, though. So it might not be the right path for others.

 

It's ok, simple things like chords don't cease to have theory "behind" them just because someone is playing them and doesn't know anything about them or what they really are/mean.

The thing here is that the topic got a bit theoretical but in my opinion both things should coexist nicely. It might not be your case but most of the theory bashers are so because they don't really understand what it is, some think it's about reading notation... which is why I think it's good to not let those dark vibes get into threads where people seek some guidance. Learning about stuff is always a good thing although reading is not necessarily learning, just like information isn't knowledge. Theory has to be put into practice to make the most out of it.

 

Some good points here. I just want to say that I view construction/composition and performance as two separate areas. Once I have worked out a song outline and refined an idea, the actual implementation would be conducted as a separate project without limit, and subject to further development and iteration, for example collaboration or genre specific additions. An analogy would be an artist's sketch and the actual painting, where the sketch contains some technical information such as perspective, lighting conditions, colors, etc., and the painting is more about interpretation and imagination.

I might add that I do find it fascinating to get a glimpse of other people's insights regarding the creative process

 

Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

More precisely, that is the step needed to turn information into knowledge.

Basically, harmony and theory are the vocabulary and grammar of musical language. Trying to write a Stephen King novel without it is possible, but who would do that? Yet people try with music constantly, and then wonder why everything sounds derivative.

Having said that. We also need the most important thing to focus on in music. The Rhythm. Which is literally the pauses and punctuation in your novel. If you don't agree with me, imagine a book that is a 500 page run-on sentence. NochapterssentencesparagraphsspacesormarksofanykindItwouldbemusicalcacophonyRight

Stated simply. Master Rhythm, Harmony, Theory, and an instrument(including voice). Then you have unlocked the ability to create music as effortlessly as you speak your native tongue.

Which I find to be very fun to be able to do. As opposed to when i couldn't, not long ago.

 

The solid sketching is the foundation of the painting/painters. And a solid foundation let's any building flow free in the wind. thus it is crucial.

 

I don't think I ever mentioned it in this forum since playing live is not really a subject that comes up but I absolutely agree that theory is a major advantage to performance.

Instead of memorizing fingerings and have to start from scratch if for instance you have to play another instrument on the spot, all you have to do is to apply the same basic harmonic/melodic info to play your part. Roman numerals, degrees and knowing where at least some of the pitches are on the instrument is usually enough for you to play a convincing part without having to ask someone "where do I put my fingers to play this song?".