I think someone is already doing that. They just sampled AI music

 

You probably tried a early version of it, in reference to the stuff it would crank out. Think about it this way. Would all these people be crying about it, if it really sucked still? Nobody had any problem with it, until it started outputting stuff that worries them. The artifacts and so on, are the same as the free hosting on Audioz. It's low bitrate and not very useful at all, unless someone pays for it. You probably can't even use files at that bitrate to just practice mixing.

 

I find myself quite confused about what's going on with you, 'your artist', and Suno under these circumstances...

Awhile back there was a thread here, it received quite a few comments. A good deal of the subject matter on that thread was attempting to sort out contractual arrangements you've agreed to (their TOS) with Suno when you use their service. Many were confused by the legalese, which by the way was poorly and confusingly written, and were having difficulty figuring out what exactly Suno gets from you when you create something using their site and system. I haven't gone back to look at their TOS since then so I don't know what, if anything, may have changed, but if I'm remembering it correctly, it definitely appeared to be stating that they have rights to the work you submit on their site, simply by using what that site has to offer.

So what I'm confused about is this... based on your OP, it seems you submitted work to Suno that you yourself do not own, and that it belongs to an artist you're doing work for. BUT by submitting that work to Suno you've given the latter ownership of certain rights that didn't belong to you in the first place. First question becomes, does the artist you're working with know you've used Suno on his/her project?

You then say you removed parts that were created by the Suno system. But if you consider their TOS, that doesn't really matter because once you submitted your artist's work to them, you gave Suno a claim to some level of ownership, regardless of whatever you've removed or kept after the fact. Suno can use, and has rights to, whatever you fed into their system regardless of what changes you decide to make after the fact.

So, it sounds to me like you may be getting into a problem area by how you've gone about this. If the artist's work goes absolutely nowhere, it probably won't matter very much. But if it does take off, you could have Suno releasing their own versions of the work on the basis that you used their system and gave them rights. They could do that even if the artist's work goes nowhere, if they decide they want to.

Again though, the thread where this was discussed is awhile ago, I haven't gone back to look at it, so I may have some of this wrong. Also, as I mentioned here, I don't know if they've made changes in the TOS. But I would definitely be checking into the TOS part of this issue to avoid problems.

 

I'm curious about whether the end client has been told where the music came from and where the legal ownership of that music lies

 

Definitions are important. You have a few times used the term "artist" to refer to the person who is paying you. That person is surely not and is in actuality just an end user of other's input as there is no creation or creativity involved on their end. And on your own end I'm in sympathy for your current physical challenge. I understand the concept of a job is just a job and have taken on work which is far from my heart, though in my view when it comes to what we call art is far removed from the process which that you describe in the means to your own. The rub in this case is the furthering of reliance on a thing that you are by using it, helping to further a revolution which will in the end obliterate the relationship with music and human creativity which I can only assume that you hold dear. It seems that we are heaping on love as a whole for a system that cares not one iota for us and will in the end bind and gag us in the pursuit of it's own commercial agenda.

 

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone reading some of these posts... The level of rationalization has reached new heights.

AI music services do nothing but generate music for you. All the notes, all the playing: it's done for you. But you can't even get the MIDI notes. You can't get full dry stems of every single track in the AI generated song. You can't generate Kontakt libraries.

And yet the AI user claims he's a "composer", pretending he's not skipping every actual step of composition.

When I was 15, I found MIDI files online from existing songs - mostly arpeggios and such from trance songs. I would just flip through them, using Sylenth or Vanguard sounds, trying to make it sound "nice".

But I was still robbed of the artistry. I can hardly tell which of my oldest work is original and which a melody loop taken without crediting the song it was taken from. But my main concern was that I didn't come up with it myself. I wanted to - I wished I could. But that would take practice, which takes time. That's the whole point of the artistic process. You suck until you don't suck. You eventually get good at it. And it feels great, no matter how long it takes.

The only thing I want AI to do is speed up the evolution of physically modelled instrument plugins. Not do the notes for me. Not speed up anything if it means I'm robbed of working out harmonies, rhythms and melodies myself. Who cares if you make 10 crappy generic demos in a week. Barely any of us are lucky enough to pay off all our bills with music alone, for most of us it's just a deep passion or hobby. In fact, I probably look down on the whole for-profit aspect. Plenty of 100% crap music makes their label tons of money. Who cares.

I mean, if you want to, go for it. I'm not threatened by it, because it's not my living. But I'll always criticize it until it stops resembling snake oil garbage.

 

Some of suno's output can be pretty wild if you set the "weirdness" slider to +90%. Definitely delivering results i have not heard in any sample pack.

I can't upload any of these, but i will gladly do some more as before and after examples to share. Before meaing suno's output, after meaning when im done with it.

I used the output of suno as a framework basically, and then build around that, replacing most, if not all of the elements. I've also used it to just get an understanding of a genre. I'll load the stems up in Ableton, see where instrumentation falls, make markers, and then just create from scratch, paying no attention to the stems. Anyone listening to the final product would have no idea if it was built with the help of AI or not.

100% Ive already seen it happening. I have a different client who asked me if i could remake something that they created in suno. Film studios, music supervisors, creative directors etc will all cut us out as soon as they can.

Depending on when you tried it, its progressed quite a bit recently. It can still output corny garbage, id say its the default to output corny garbage, but if you prompt it as detailed as possible, and do some trial and error with the prompts, you can get some great results. The output can still have artifacts, but that has gotten better recently as well.

Very cool! would love to hear the original side by side! to hear where it came from. I'll take a listen to this tho!

Ive not fed any audio into suno. im using it to create instrumentals only, with the intent to either replace everything, or chop and screw it beyond recognition. Side note, i believe soon we will face similar issues from our music distributors (distrokid, landr, etc) and potentially even spotify. They will force the user to agree to their terms, and the terms will include such things as people's right to freely remix, or for them to train their own ai's.

Yup, discussed it in pre-production meetings. Legal ownership will fall on the artist, songwriter, and myself.

The artist will be contributing with songwriting and vocals. As for the second part of your comment, yes, i agree with you, somewhat. I dont see it obliterating human creativity completely. There will always be people who just love to play music, myself included, as well as many others in this thread. There is nothing like picking up a guitar or firing up a synth, AI will never replace that. Live music, even DJing will still be in demand as well, at least until they develop full augmented / virtual reality.

However, there will be mega tech coroporations who take advantage of AI, and publishers, labels etc who will figure out what way they can screw us over even more, but thats inevitable. There are years where im struggling to make ends meet, have zero benefits, no insurance, no PTO etc etc, yet "Carol" in admin who can't even download the files i sent to her (this literally happens all the time) , or who will gaslight me to hell and back that i was already payed (i wasnt, also has happened numerous times) gets full benefits, 3 weeks paid vacation, and health coverage for her family. Unless some major change happens in the industry, most musicians, producers, songwriters and artist will continue getting screwed over, using AI as a launch pad for songs won't rush that.

 

For starters, you can get the midi if you wanted, its not always perfect, but using melodyne or even ableton's built in audio to midi can get you started. I also don't need full dry stems. Im using suno as an idea generator and then working around that, replacing the majority of it if not all of it. You can sort of even generate kontakt libraries lol, but we wont go there for now.

Nowhere did i claim i was a composer, although i am doing a large amount of composition, just using suno as a co-composer. I did however claim i was a producer, which is what im doing. Im helping the artist realize their creative vision and bring the highest quality finished recording to them. Im making both creative and technical decisions to shape the overall sound and direction of their album. That is the definition of a music producer.

As for practicing and putting in time, ive put in decades of work to get where i am. i can play 10+ instruments, i even build my own from scratch. I take pride in my work, yet i also have no problem using whatever tool is necessary to achieve the desired result. Suno may not be "necessary", but it is definitely welcomed.

I am indeed quite lucky to have music be my main source of income, but its not like it just fell in my lap, it took years of sacrifices and struggling to get here, and i still struggle financially from time to time. If i have a tool that can help me quickly frame out ideas, so that i don't have to spend a week making 10 crappy generic demos, why wouldn't i use it? It saves me mental energy, physical energy, and time. All three of which im lacking as of late. If i can expedite the process, and still deliver a unique, high quality product to my client, i will take advantage of it.