Pragmatic Jazz Theory (how we use Tonal Jazz theory to actually make music in reality.)

Discussion in 'Education' started by MMJ2017, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    some typos now and then haha thanks (fixed it lol




    That is my intent with my content, to break it down all in order.

    I have only ever seen people like rick beato or any others ( great stuff)

    Take one aspect and dig deep into ( completely normal way to do it)

    I am attempting to do another thing also,
    present the information as it unfolds in proper order, to show the order it unfolds in.
    this is something people study jazz theory or even reg theory for years and years and finally once they absorb it all they can eventually see the order it all unfolds in naturally.

    what i mean by "order"

    is start
    1.from a key, say cmaj KEY
    2.next the main chord Cmaj7
    3. precede with dominant G7,Cmaj7
    4. Precede with ii V I
    5. the chord equivalents (I=iii=vi),( ii=IV), (V=vii%) this is how all 7 chords are = to ii,V,I
    6. next the minor ii,V,I (actually is vii%, III7,vi
    7. minor plus major ii V I together vii%, III7,vi,ii,V,I
    8. addition of IV to compete 7 chord progression ( IV, vii%,III7,vi,ii,V,I )

    and so on,
    I am presenting the "order" of how the theory works in respect to how to begin with a single maj KEY in this case Cmaj, and how to see all the theory in order come from it all the way to all 12 keys, every substitution every chord.

    because once you can understand this ONLY then can, you start from any KEY and follow the same process, ONLY then can you see the larger than key structures and how every song works, every possibility
    its just like with our spoken language we learn when a kid how it all fits together.

    see the problem most people have is knowledge of chunks of theory
    ex. how chords work, and say how scales work
    but they have big gaps in their knowledge AND they don't know the order of it all.
    for example once you see the order it all unfolds in you see that chords and melodies are same thing theory wise , ( only different in time domain of notes after another or stacked together etc.
    I appreciate your support, I will be continuing to add to this thread ( updating first post also) for a long time so please keep checking on it! ( until it is all presented from start to finish in order of how it unfolds)

    I will present all the information in order so that you can see lik ethis chart starting from one key and getting to all 12 notes all 12 keys ( but relative to CmajKEY this means EVERY substitution every chord that exists in RELATION to CKEY)then once you have with CKEY do same thing with all other keys.

    this chart below is a visual of this without explanation though

    [​IMG]


    you see in jazz theory understanding a key is just the beginning, in jazz a key = all the detail pertaining to one single note. just like we have larger structures than a single note ( a chord) we also have larger structures than keys too, because a key = a single note. this is what i mean about how the theory unfolding in order.

    every new step you are on can trace back to any step before or after it.

    for example step 1 is C note (rep Cmajkey

    if i jump to step 4.

    and compare them.

    C note = ii, V, I or ) Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7

    step 4. ii, V I is just a more filled out version of a single C note.

    anyplace you can use a C note you can swap it out with Dmin7,G7.Cmaj7
    and vise versa any place you have a ii, V I you can swap it for C.

    this not only with step 1 and step4 it is for any of the steps!

    ex.

    take step 8 the full 7 chord progression

    ( IV, vii%,III7,vi,ii,V,I )

    Fmaj7,Bmin7flat5,E7,Amin7,Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7

    you can swap this any place you would have a single C note

    and vise-versa any time you have a "full progression" Fmaj7,Bmin7flat5,E7,Amin7,Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7

    you can swap with a single C note, its just a more detailed version of a C note!

    and like I said ANY of the steps work this way!

    so
    all of these steps

    1.from a key, say cmaj KEY
    2.next the main chord Cmaj7
    3. precede with dominant G7,Cmaj7
    4. Precede with ii V I
    5. the chord equivalents (I=iii=vi),( ii=IV), (V=vii%) this is how all 7 chords are = to ii,V,I
    6. next the minor ii,V,I (actually is vii%, III7,vi
    7. minor plus major ii V I together vii%, III7,vi,ii,V,I
    8. addition of IV to compete 7 chord progression ( IV, vii%,III7,vi,ii,V,I )

    Fmaj7,Bmin7flat5,E7,Amin7,Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7

    all of that equals C maj7

    it is all swappable with each other at any point!
    the most simple version of it is C.
    the most detailed version of it is
    Fmaj7,Bmin7flat5,E7,Amin7,Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7
    it means the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  2. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

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    looking forward to the continuing journey MMJ much appreciated
     
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  3. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

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    bumpety bump
     
  4. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

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    MMj
    when you say it "means" the same thing......i can see you are referencing harmonic pallette as the concept. all good.... my next question is .... travelling melodically? if one just uses chord tones to traverse melody it tends to be very nursery rhyme in my experience... how to access the dissonance with some logical motion....sometimes i even resort to raising or lowering any tones i find limp, by a semitone this can cause great anticipation....also if you take a root position 7 chord say and spread each voice into its own octave ... strange things happen and dissonances become less intrusive but still attractive.....could you shed a little og your harmonic light on these subjects when u get a chance please......incidentally i have found a practical way to use a standard keyboard that suits my fat fingers and non key playing abilities...just start every composition in Gb (F#) that way you have good black note targets....which are the pentatonic scale incidentally...
    and the B and F white notes shine out as the 4 and 7...so easy to see since they sit at each end of the 3 black note cluster/...hope this is helpful....of course once you have got your composition running you can transpose at will.....cheers sir jack
     
  5. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    so first think of it as you have a "on" beat and a "off" beat

    say your tempo was 120 bpm
    you have 1.2.3.4
    those the "on beats" (quarter notes)
    next you have the "off" beats the swung beats (last end of a triplet)
    imagine 123.123.123.123.123.123.123.123.

    BUT you ommit the 2 that gives you
    1*3.1*3.1*3.1*3.1*3.1*3.
    so you make the 1 last the length of the 1and 2 of a triplet then the 3 count is the off beat the swung beat.

    so its like

    1n2n3n4n
    the numbers last twice as long as the "n" (duration)

    now once you have that
    your "n" is the off beat going back to your question
    the off beats are treated very different than the on beats
    the main beats you use chords tones, the off beats you use leading tones or grace notes

    but also if say Cmaj7 is your chord you are melody over the melody can be a ii V i

    next your off beats can be any of the 12 tones long as it sounds good and resolves to a chord tone this opens up to unlimited choices.

    say your playing over a Cmaj7 chord in the bass and comping, you can play (ii V I, maj, ii V I minor)

    that would be Bmin7flat5, E7,Amin7,Dmin7,G7,Cmaj7 but broken up into melody and creating resolutions on the chord tones
    here a few things to check out for ideas





    listen closely to the melodies
     
  6. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

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    ok thanks MMJ im gonna do some experiments......ill get back to you on this....much appreciated
     
  7. farao

    farao Platinum Record

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    Thank you, it is very helpful to have it breaked down like this. Far too many books on jazz theory and improv take too many things for granted.

    Please do comtinue... :bow:
     
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  8. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Now the really cool thing about JAZZ is,
    The use of dominant chords

    Take G7


    the usable chord tones are
    G B D F A C# D# G# A#
    r 3 5 7 9 flat5 #5 flat9 #9

    all those can notes be on the beat
    and the grace notes can be a half-step below or above.


    say we have a normal ii V I in Cmaj
    Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7
    BUT lets make instead, MAKE each one a dominant
    D7,G7,C7

    DF#ACE G# A# D# F
    G BDFA C# D# G# A#
    CEGA#D F# G# C# D#

    NOW you can do amazing things with ALL those chord tones on the on beats
    and the connecting grace notes on the off beats!

    in JAZZ even 2 notes of a melody resolve the way that chord progressions do, anytime you go from off beat to on beat is a mini resolution of V to I.

    you can connect dominant chords in unique ways

    through circle of fifths

    B7,E7,A7,D7,G7,C7,F7

    like through various interval shapes

    C7,E7,G#7

    C7,D#7,F#7,A7

    G#7,B7,D7,F7
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  9. spyfx

    spyfx Guest

    @MMJ2017 this is my contribution to this nice thread....idk if it fits...but maybe someone will find this inspiring in the now & in the future :wink::bow: ;


     
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  10. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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  11. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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  12. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

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    let the festival continue
     
  13. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    When we start off developing our JAZZ skills, ( really any point in our journey though )
    It is important for us to develop our ears hearing, and recognizing what the JAZZ theory tells us.
    This means as we get used to knowing what we are hearing our brain will understand whether a flurry of fast notes, or a long drawn out note our brain will hear the underlining foundation.
    we will hear in another dimension than the surface sounds, we will hear how say a ii V I is really the I

    One thing I have found helpful in this development, is to go through pre-jazz to beginning of jazz and listen closely to it, we will begin to hear even a complex flurry of 16 fast notes is really just the one note of the key ringing out .
    What happens when we slowly develop our ears something magical begins to happen, we begin to hear what is below the surface.
    we hear the meaning deep down.
    watch and listen to this 100 times!





    Picture in your mind's eye a comparison of JAZZ music, to a film or movie.

    Imagine a movie where at the moment there is little movement in the scene the character is still sitting on a park bench, single camera.

    this is the equivalent of \ jazz a single note long and drawn out ringing.
    NEXT Imagine the movie, the character is running and camera changes lots of images changing on the screen shots from above from below from side to side while the character is being chased.
    this is the equivalent of JAZZ a flurry of 20 notes happening and some soft some loud some vibrato etc.

    Both are describing the same thing in the movie it is the story of the character both times.
    and in jazz whether a single notes that rings long time with no other notes played,
    OR a flurry of 20 notes twisting all around, Both are the same thing at the foundation level , an expression of that KEY.
    What this means a a writer of JAZZ the choice is always yours to take and express yourself in infinite ways!
    this is the equivalent
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  14. sir jack spratsky

    sir jack spratsky Kapellmeister

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    bump ya
     
  15. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  16. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  17. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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  19. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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  20. MMJ2017

    MMJ2017 Audiosexual

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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
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