Many times we use analogue components for the very reason that they DO add a specific warmth, a bit of harmonic content that they flavour a sterile, clean or one could say, otherwise boring signal. Clean has its uses as well as the sexy, dabbled in dust derived transformer sound. Ear candy is dandy and makes me randy. If you don't believe me, ask this guy!

 

I don't suppose it would hurt to answer the question that was originally asked. If you want to give your overall sound a makeover, remember that most outboard gear like compressors are single channel, so aren't going to help you with your mixes unless you buy two.
With that in mind I'd suggest the SSL Fusion.
https://www.solidstatelogic.com/fusion

 

i meant this here
since tegeler is mentioned i thought well
https://www.manley.com/pro/mslam

When it comes to classic gear, especially classic limiters, we can all agree numbers like LA2s, 1176s, 2264s, and others come to mind. What if all those sounds were to be found in one stereo tube unit. Interested? We combined our favorite Electro-Optical circuit (ELOP®) with a damn fast FET based brick-wall limiter reminiscent of some cool classics. And we added a sidechain filter that can remove low frequencies that makes it more useful for a variety of tasks, while retaining that easy, "it just works" quality that has made it a favorite for vocals everywhere. The FET-based limiter has different desirable characteristics that both optimize the signal for digital recording, due to the brick-wall capability, and let you dial in how clean or crunchy, or punchy, and how loud and proud you want it.

 

Whoa! Not happening for me. Here the Manley Slam is nearly $12,000!! The SSL is $2,900.

 

Yeah, nice and great, but expensive as hell. I stopped thinking about expensive tools like that long time ago. But I do like it. A lot.

 

The Manley Slam is nowhere near $12,000.

Hey, you got a dime?
No, only a quarter.
I got change!

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SLAM--manley-slam

 

The original question was about linking synths into a DAW. There are two issues here, direct injection and outboard processing. I can’t think of a single synth that isn’t running at unbalanced consumer voltage levels (-10dBV), whereas a great many interfaces (anything that expects a balanced in) is running at pro voltage (+4dBu).



So, you can go two ways around the block, you can preamp the line in up to pro levels, or you can use a levelling amplifier. Now, there’s two ways to get that authentic noisy analog sound: you either overdrive the tubes in the unit or you underdrive (the so-called cold cathode designs). The difference is about 10x the cost, because overdriving requires voltages in the 300V arena, under requires maybe 40V. Cheap tube outboard uses cold cathode, Manley anything doesn’t which is what you’re paying for. Hot tubes sound better the harder you push them (within limits) cold cathode designs sound nasty. So you have to keep cold tube outboard within limits.

Now the other way you get cheap tube outboard is using cheap Chinese tubes. There’s places you can go (Watford Valves in the UK) to get replacement tubes by old tube makers (such as Mullard). This can be worth putting some semolians behind, but by and large isn’t going to make a huge difference on a cold cathode unit but can get you a better HF response than China factory on any unit. Don’t waste money on the cryo tubes, it’s aromatherapy for audiophiles.

The PRO VLA unit I recommended is a great place to start for those on a plugin budget. It uses paired Vactrols (light sensors) to do the levelling and uses cold China tubes to amplify the makeup gain. Is it worth it? Hell yes, I’ve got a pair of ex-military Mullards running the makeup stage in mine, which is my goto DI input for most of my synths. The Mullards turn a cold synth into something a lot juicer on the input side. Not quite so lovely as an outboard effect, but hell, I’ve got other toys for that game.

If you want to try classic outboard gear, hell yes, if you have the moolah. But if you can't hear what Acustica's plugs are doing, you may well be dissapointed. Most people can't conciously hear analog, it takes a while to understand what you're listening for. When you can, you're starting to get golden ears.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2019

"We use -or plugins often have- saturation" because saturation is pleasant to our ears.We all know that a too clean digital signal is cold,and lifeless.

 

Oh sh**,I can't click on both "useful","like',and "love it"!
Very interesting Fudsey,thanks!

But if you had a Manley compressor you would open it and replace its tubes??I'm surprised;I don't know electronic engeeniring,and I would think there are top notch parts inside them.
And which are the "overdriven" compressors,if they exist?

Or maybe i misunderstood,you "overdive" with a preamp like a 1073 or you "underdrive" with a compressor,a called level amplifier??

 

I have just the olad FaderPort Classic. Seen the Faderport 16 , that might be a lot of fun

 

I was rather thinking to the small and simple Faderport:
https://www.presonus.com/products/FaderPort

I want something at least for writing automations and fades,because I hate Akai endless rotary knobs for that.They are endless but when you select a track the knob don't start a the original level of your virtual plugin knob!In this cas I don't understand the advantage of this kind of endless rotary knob,it's like a non-motorized fader,useless!

 

Ms Manley doesn't use cheap Chinese tubes.

And which are the "overdriven" compressors,if they exist? It's not the tool, it's what you do with it.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2019

Yeah correct. Thank you. This is not .

 

Ok, we have to be very clear here.

This is all not so correct and the people which are talking in those videos are very often stuck in the 80's without having so much knowledge really and I beg to differ some things and to read everything.

There is a difference between "harmonic distorting" or "harmonic enhancing" (<- for example vsm-2)
and linear and non linear phase components (<- typical signal processing units).
Of course the vsm-2 is also a non linear component but the important thing is what the intention of a component is.

If you take the pro-q in non linear phase mode and copy the curve of your choice of an for example ssl-g eq. There is really not a relevant difference than maybe a low noise floor (depends on is it emulated, an emulated plugin with "analog switch" or a real component). If you do not believe it, or simply don't know it, try it (you need of course something like the waves q-clone). No harmonic enhancement is going to be added. Promised . This is not true for those saturation knobs in plugins. Then we have a harmonic distortion component but this is not the case in the original components. And those are which we have to relate on. And the bit harmonic distortion thats added through the original components is not relevant at all. This won't make anything sound better right away! You do not have to rely on that, you can of course take out the fairchild only for "colour" like one of those grammy superheroes does. But this is mostly not very productive.

Now people say "oh, but the g-console sounds so aggressive. All components sound so different from each other".
And we really have to ask and answer the "everytime most important question": Why?

The misunderstandings are coming from all the "super relevant musical expressionistic terms" like "warmth", "depth" and I don't know what.
Fact is: This has nothing to do with the reality. There is nothing warm, there is nothing deep, there only is "It sounds better or not". Why? Ask a consumer if a song sounds "warm or deep" he asks "are you're crazy?". This is not the reality.

So, the only reason why different components in similar configurations sound so different from each other is the behavior of the in this case fixed processing components (like an equalizing curve), because we are talking about "vintage" components. If we compare for example the ssl g-eq and the trident a-range and we're going to make a cut at 1kHz on a (my favourite example) distorted guitar, on the g-eq it sounds "more aggressive" and on the trident it's almost radio ready or "warm". This is only because the g-eq has a very narrow curve, even more if you make a higher cut and then of course, less of the harsh frequencies are getting cut out, while the trident has a very wide and more complex curve and therefore more frequencies are getting cut out. Thats all. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why should I the use a emulated plugin over the pro-q if I can simply copy everything? Because those components are very simple and straight forward and every decision is really technical thought out from guys who really know whats going on in music. I do not have to reinvent the wheel everytime.

The so called "coldness and liveliness" comes from the difference between non linearity and linearity. But this is another question.

 

Last edited: Mar 18, 2019

you are using cubase right ? why not have a look at the steinber controller dedicated for cubase:
https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/controllers/cc121/product_views.html

 

How do you call these harmonics on the bx-SSLG(with THD turned off as you can see) and the Puigteq(Pultec)?Both without any cut or boost,without noise floor or analog switch.
And I don't see any harmonics with Pro-Q.

So you couldn't do exactly the same EQ with Pro-Q and with SSLG.

 

Last edited: Mar 18, 2019

No,I like Studio One,that's why I'm looking for the Faderport.

 

Correct. I do have to be more precise here and I shouldn't have said "No harmonic enhancement is going to be added."

There are Plugins where one can not deactivate those harmonic distortions (I honestly do not know why). But the more important thing was already answered: "There is really not a relevant difference" (as you can see in your second picture) and the other reason you have quoted yourself: "This won't make anything sound better right away! You do not have to rely on that, you can of course take out the fairchild only for "colour" like one of those grammy superheroes does. But this is mostly not very productive." <- This goes for the third picture.

Anyways, the characteristic of an processor is not defined from the noise floor or the harmonic enhancement. This is why I said it's not relevant.

As I said: You do not have to rely on what I say... but...

One has to make this decision by himself.

 

Last edited: Mar 18, 2019

I guess these plugins have these harmonics even when turned off because they emulate the original hardware distortion.

 

It does a relevant difference.But of course an EQ adds subtle harmonics,it is not a greenscreamer guitar distortion.

 

Last edited: Mar 18, 2019