Opposite compressor?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by Usdllama, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. Usdllama

    Usdllama Noisemaker

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    Is there such thing as a compressor where instead of audio being reduced when above a threshhold, it becomes louder when bellow a threshhold?
     
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  3. dragonhill

    dragonhill Guest

    expander
     
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  4. Introninja

    Introninja Audiosexual

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    upward compression and/or Parallel compression Depending on high level content

    Compressed vs. Uncompressed

    [​IMG]
    From: Hugh Robjohns, Sound on Sound
     
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  5. n0xin

    n0xin Rock Star

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    just upward compression will give you what you need... if you don't have upward compressor, parallel compression can help you to achieve "similar" results but not the same. :)
     
  6. n0xin

    n0xin Rock Star

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    correction: downward compression + make-up gain = uplift compression =/= upward compression
    and btw, @Usdllama read it for yourself https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/parallel-compression
     
  7. The-RoBoT

    The-RoBoT Rock Star

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    Expander late 70's trick :wink:
     
  8. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    You mean something like this?

    Expander 01.jpg

    Expander 02.jpg
     
  9. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Expander/gate or transient designer.

    Not upward compression.
     
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  10. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    simple

    [​IMG]

    quotes from cockos forum:

    Upward compression is not expansion.
    Compression => reducing dynamic range
    Expansion => increase of dynamic range

    - downward compression:
    traditional comp, making loud passages more quiet
    - upward compression:
    making soft passages louder
    can be achieved with parallel compression


    - upward expansion:
    making loud passages louder (can be used to "un-compress" overly squashed material)
    - downward expansion:
    making soft passages more quiet (the mechanism noise gates are using)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
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  11. Olymoon

    Olymoon MODERATOR Staff Member

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    This is called an expander. It was used a lot in radio. you can do this with a limiter too.
     
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  12. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    Sorta. The bottom two are ̶e̶x̶p̶a̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ ̶+̶ ̶g̶a̶t̶e̶ gate+compressor & expander+limiter. They're not reversible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  13. Usdllama

    Usdllama Noisemaker

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    Thank you for all the replies!
     
  14. mild pump milk

    mild pump milk Russian Milk Drunkard

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    Sorry? I thought limiter it is like downward compression up to horizontal line.
    Gate is an extreme version of expander.
    Limiter is an extreme version of compression.
    What's the problem with such name like upward/downward?
    Can you give me correct pictures if mine is wrong?
    But what if we compare my picture with Ozone Dynamics section, Flux?
    And is mine kind of hard knee? Transient shaper-like?
    Probably mine is correct, but we think of knee soft/hard?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2018
  15. Seecret

    Seecret Ultrasonic

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    This is Exactly what Waves MV2, It's a great compressor, youre Gonna Love it
     
  16. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    Sure. It's pretty simple. Works like this:
    [​IMG]

    1. X axis represents your input level, Y the output.

    2. To get the output for any X, draw a vertical line up from X to the compression curve (blue wiggly line), and then draw a horizontal line to Y, e.g. magenta line gives us ~6 for input of ~3 (10 being full scale).

    3. X = Y is a 45 degree line, starting at 0, 0 & ending at 10, 10. What comes in, comes out; no change, transparent.
    For every X, there is one (and only one) Y.

    4. Even with the blue wiggly line, there is one (and only one) Y -- a vertical line from any X, from 0 to 10, will intersect the blue wiggly line in one, and only one, spot. This is important, because it means we can undo our compression -- we can simply take our compressed sound clip, and expand it with the same compressor, by mirroring (flipping) our compression curve along the 45 degree line. Theoretically (ignoring stuff like bit depth and ...other weirdness), the result will be our original clip, before we compressed it.
    No information was lost.

    5.
    We can't do this with the pics at the bottom, because orange shade. At bottom left, X = 0 maps to Y = 0, but so does X = 1, X = 2, and X = 3. These (quiet) values were cut off -- lost, irretrievably; no undo. Think "gated, hard; gate threshold @ X = 3."

    Bottom right is a similar thing, X=7 maps to Y=10, but so does X=8, X=9, etc. Think limiter set with the ceiling @ X = 7. You can't undo that either.

    Fuck if I know:dunno:
    Yeah, think of compressor "knee" as a real knee, where the leg (our compressor curve)bends. Gumby ([​IMG]) has no bones, his leg bends with a soft knee. Two straight lines forming an angle (like in your pics) is a hard knee (maybe "sharp knee" would have been a better term).

    Sorry if this is a bit on the long (& rambling) side. If something's not clear, tell me what/where we miss each other & I'll try to do better.

    P.S. "Color Curves" in graphics/video editors
    ([​IMG] )
    Are a perfect visual analogy for compressors/expanders. Circled is no longer compressing, it's limiting (horizontal line).
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  17. Magic Mango

    Magic Mango Producer

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  18. junh1024

    junh1024 Rock Star

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    Limiting input & output to 255 is a limitation of the PHOTOSHOP GUI (ONLY).

    With slider controls, you are allowed to go over 0dB , with 32/64bits float precision.

    Izotope Ozone does exactly that, a limiter with negative ratio, that also allows loud signals to go over 0dB.
     
  19. Blorg

    Blorg Producer

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    Not sure I understand what you're saying. Limiting is simply a horizontal line on a chart; the ceiling above which the output won't rise. This ceiling could be set pretty arbitrarily. It doesn't mean running out of headroom.
    What does that even mean? what would it do? A limiter is a compressor with extremely high (positive) ratios, often (positive) infinity, which translates into a horizontal line on the plot (the ceiling).
    Google is not being a bro: "limiter with negative ratio" nets me exactly 1 result, upload_2018-3-20_5-6-30.png
    My internet must be broken, could you post a link?
     
  20. tooloud

    tooloud Guest

    If such a device existed, what would be the point? I listen to Katy Perry and everything's loud and you don't hear me complaining.
     
  21. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Close, it's between 0 and 1 to 1

    Well, it looks like this

    Limiter 0,4 to 1.jpg

    and sounds like this:

    untreated



    "limited"

     
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