By that I mean investing time into learning the plugin features and workflow and then most importantly the sound quality and capabilities of it, the expansions samples and whatnot or am I better off sticking to using Ableton and other plugins and samples?

Just to be clear, I am not buying the hardware package, only using the software inside Ableton Live.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2023

New no, used maybe

 

Sorry if it wasnt clear, I'm not talking about the hardware or the price, if thats what you meant. I'm only going to use the software plugin inside Ableton ;)

 

It's not worth the effort without the hardware. Even then, I mostly use mine in midi mode. Maybe it's just me

 

Oh wow. Ok so... the whole NI Maschine ecosystem is mediocre at best kinda thing? Not worth the money, time and SSD space huh?

 

I haven't seen anyone who uses one complain about it. In the same way you don't see many users complain about the MPC similar incarnations. But there are also better ways you could spend the money and of course no-one "needs one". Why wouldn't you get something that interacts more directly with Ableton?

Maschine and Komplete Kontrol software have users without the hardware, but there isn't much of a point. It would just give you access to some more sample content without having to screw around with extracting them. People do that also.

 

Im new to this whole thing and its what I am looking for now! i just thought maybe Maschine is a great all-in-one plugin with world class sounds made by reputable sound designers and studios, which would compliment or surpass anything I already use from Ableton stock plugins

If not Maschine, what others should I look at?

 

Software only Maschine is very limited and sounds like software, teamed with hardware it's very freeing to many and easy to get ideas out but software still sounds like software. A DAW like Live with a Push combo is far more powerful than Maschine. I personally use Studio One/ but Cubase is fantastic too, we have many better software options today the Maschine only software.

 

UVI Falcon

From NI, Kontakt for sample libraries and Battery for drum machine style sampler. Komplete Kontrol and Maschine software are meant to be a bridge between the hardware and your DAW. Without the hardware, there is more complete software available.

 

Last edited: Nov 13, 2023

Battery is also NI, but is a different, maybe better, interface and workflow, right? Would it be all the same samples as Maschine though?

UVI Falcon looks interesting. Thats a lot of GB's to fully load. My storage SSD is only 2TB so I need to be careful with these

 

Maschine without the hardware doesnt make sense, at least not to me. It's made to simulate a groovebox workflow. To use it without the hardware would be like trying to play a synth with a mouse. The whole design of Maschine is based on a groovebox workflow, so to get the most out of it, you definitely want the hardware.

If you're comfortable working with a groovebox / pattern based workflow, then it makes total sense. If you've never done that before, then it might take some time to get used to or you may absolutely hate it. The only way to know is to try it out.

I've used Maschine exclusively to make music for over 10 years and personally I love it. It's fast, I don't need to look at a computer screen and I can just concentrate on fleshing ideas out quickly. I'm also a hardware heavy user so I tend to record quite a bit from outboard gear. I can control and sequence all of my hardware directly from Maschine and it's essentially the control center for my studio.

That said, Maschine does have some limitations. Lack of plugin delay compensation, comprehensive envelope tools for automation, broader sampler features... these are just a few things I wish they would address but they're not a deal breakers and there are workarounds. However, everything it does have is more than enough for me to make the music I want.

Point being, Maschine is not mediocre by any stretch. It's very flexible and you can mold it to fit your needs but it's like any other piece of gear/software. You get out what you put in.

 

Guess it depends on what your using it for because there are tons of expansions same with the mpc software which are both the same in there own right.But the expansions can be used in your daw without maschine they have wav files minus whatever effects are used inside maschine.I have maschine studio which has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

I have been using Maschine MK2 for 10 years now.. yeah I agree with the rest, without the hardware it is kinda of pointless.. the hardware is great, I could just make a beat just straight from the hardware without the need to navigate so much on the application/daw.

Also what I love about Maschine, the MIDI capabilities and feature of the hardware is superb. I could just load it up in Studio One or rewire it and I can have all the ease of composing from the hardware. Chords, ARP, scaling, midi writing by playing, no more mouse need to edit 1 by 1..

Sound pack-wise,, not to say the best of the best.. but so far nothing has disappointed me yet.

 

Falcon and it's factory library are relatively small. I really like the Drum Designer expansion, especially when you are comparing with KK and Maschine because they are also useful for making beats. Falcon does not load everything from disk all at once, it also streams. I don't use an external ssd for Falcon libraries. I use 4tb usb3 hdds. A good amount of the Falcon libraries are Flac samples. For the most "realistic" instruments, most people say they prefer Kontakt (NCW files). I've never taken the time to compare or blind test them because nothing I make, or even listen to; depends on absolute individual instrument realism.

Sometimes you will see someone use just the NI software KK/maschine in a production video. But it's usually only out of familiarity because they have used the hardware a long time and probably have made custom kits. Olav Basoski will use the Maschine software by itself, as an example. It's pretty uncommon to see. They are free programs that come bundled with a device.

 

Last edited: Nov 13, 2023

Lots of things to investigate, listen to demos and decide on, so thanks all.

Im mainly into the older late 70's early 80's synths and drum machines for creating my kits, Korg, Arp, TR series, DMX, Linn etc. Ive bought and downloaded lots of sample packs for these already, but honestly most of them sound really weak or badly recorded and/or processed, which is why I am seeking another solution to get high quality modern variations, nice transients, clear, fat and punchy if I had to describe it.

I've been trying some software synths to recreate these sounds as they were making them back in the day, sometimes with great results, but mostly not and it involves a lot of time, when I'd rather be throwing the kits in, programming midi and right into melodies, bass etc., making actual songs when the juices are flowing. Not that I am lazy, I do love making drums, but not when I have a melody in my head that I need to get down fast before it disappears.

I'm mostly making Synthwave, French House, Melodic Progressive House, some DnB and Breaks, if I had to put together a shortlist of genres. if any of that that makes any difference as far as suggestions and choosing a plugin and expansions

 

Roland Cloud for those machines. Rob Papen Punch 2 covers some of the JomoX machines. Falcon Drum Designer I already mentioned, Tal-Drum sample based drum machine, or Battery if NI is your thing. Addictive Drums 2, I like because it is on a smaller storage space commitment for a drummer like Superior or Ez Drummer. Sonic Academy Kick 2 for Kick drums, but you can also use it for other drums. The Sampler and Drum Machine Designer in Logic are highly capable also, but that is MacOS only of course. If you are using Cubase, then Backbone/Groove Agent are in there.

Sample packs are always hit or miss for each individual sample. Bad kick, then a great snare next. To cover the most ground and the most machines, Samples From Mars. I use some other stuff too, but those plugins covers about 95%.

 

I should add that I use a lot of real instruments these days, but if you have the hardware then the time investment could be worth it for you. I do like the knobs and pads, and I use it with my NI KK M32 keyboard for composing new music. I also got it used, so it wasn't a big investment for me.

 

TL;DL
Maschine w/o HW doesn't make much sense.

I mainly play keys and I bought Maschine (HW) to get away from keys/piano player "perspective" from time to time. That's why I prefer it to Push (and that's considering Ableton is my main DAW). It is one piece of NI's HW that IMO makes sense and that I don't regret buying. Also, since I don't have a NI keyboard and never plan to buy one, I use Maschine to control everything NI (it's not limited to "Maschine ecosystem", but all NI). At that time I have my keyboard routed through Maschine or in parallel with it as VSTi. It's a fast worflow and you can come up with an idea in no time.

The quality control of the expansions is high. I've seen renown producers use sounds from those packs (without HW). That said, although the expansions are somewhat genre labeled, they tend to be vague. And I consider it a good thing as you can use them in some other context than intended. From what you've listed Synthwave, DnB, Breaks will be covered (only a couple of expansions..). True French House - you'll have to bake your own.;) Speaking of which, it's fast at sampling and fun to play those chops.. but again, /w HW

IMO @aymat described the situation perfectly. And as always YMMV

 

This 100%

Ive been purchasing gear for over 25 years and Maschine IMO is the best purchase Ive made studio-wise. If I had to get rid of everything and only use one thing, it would be Maschine. It's such a utilitarian tool and the fact that it's not limited to the NI ecosystem is what makes it incredibly useful.

It is great as just a standalone system to make music with expansions, which as @RobertoCavally has stated are of a high very high standard. Most of the expansions are very well curated with kits that are already processed to fit cohesively in a mix. What I find I enjoy most about the expansions is experimenting with kits from different genres. For example, I produce mostly drum and bass but I tend to use a lot of house kits for creating custom breaks because the single hits on some of them are so well processed.

Maschine is also absolutely phenomenal as a dedicated sequencer and sampler for hardware, and @Jeffriezal is 100% on point with Maschine's MIDI implementation which is rock solid. I can run clock to everything in my studio from Maschine without any sync issues, everything is easy to set up and just works.

 

more for me to chew on, thanks guys.

Im currently looking at some midi controllers that have both pads and keys in smaller format ideally because I dont have much real estate available in my spot. I do have a few analog synths, sampler, pedals, guitars and mics, so im doing a hybrid wort of workflow, but most of my time is spent ITB for sure.

Any suggestions for keys/pads combo midi controllers? Akai has some nice looking ones. Or should I stay with NI offerings? I'll be honest, im fckng poor atm so it needs to be on the cheap