I was working on a mix last night, and decided to reference against a track from a band that I thought would be similar to where I want the mix to go. Also, it was a similar lineup to the band I'm working on. Two guitars, bass, drummer, singer, background vocals.
Level-wise, I seemed to be in the ballpark with the different instruments. I could hear every drum and cymbal, and the beater on the kick, etc. Bass guitar wasn't overbearing, just in there nice and holding the low end, but not fighting the kick for attention. Guitar sounding powerful blasting out of both sides (but not at the expense of the other instruments), and the vocals sitting in the middle, out front like it should be.
Tonally, I was pretty happy with the individual instruments.
So I'm thinking hey, this is really good.
Then I popped in the reference track and didn't even make it through the first verse before saying what the hell?
The depth and dimension of the mix compared to mine is just incredible. I could pick out not only every single instrument, but the placement in the room also. I thought my mixes were like they were because my room sucks, but now I think the room isn't as bad as I had thought. Mine felt like a wash of sound afterwards compared to the reference.
How is this achieved? Is it surgical eq'ing that gives that separation? Or is it the fact that I'm working with not high dollar mics going through not very expensive preamps? Is it phase problems? How do I open my mixes up to be able to get that depth? This sucks because I thought I had such great clarity.



Signed
Disappointed Sound Guy!

 

Last edited: Dec 16, 2016

Mind posting some sound smaples?

 

How you place elements in a mix is not only about volume, eq and panning or reverb but more about the attack time of compressors... Thats a great way to get depth and openness

 

its in the details. this journey you're about to go on is a long one. stick with it its worth it!!!

 

Actually this is an interesting comment to me. I began playing with compressor settings using the Stavrou method last night. I've never really understood what to be listening for when adjusting attack and release settings, but his explanation put it in terms I could grasp. Also it clarifies to me that simply using compression presets, possibly useful as a starting point, is rarely going to fit every situation. So I'm going through and adjusting any compression I am using starting with this one project/track. It would be nice if this is the answer as it's something I'm going to be working on anyway.

I'm going to update the 1st post shortly with the track I'm trying to open up, and a link to the track I've referenced it against on YouTube. Hope the YouTube quality is good enough to hear what I'm hearing.

 

Heads up, never compare a finished, mixed and mastered track with yours.
Why? Because, for starters that professional track has probably been processed by a professional engineer and a professional mastering engineer who has mixed more tracks, than all the unfinished crap project you and i have in our project folder with names like "new mix final, new mix final 2, new mix final fr this time" etc etc.
Because, the reference mix is something you want to get close to, not surpass. You want to imitate the quality, not compare.
You will get disappointed. Slapping a limiter to even up the audio does not help either.

You just have to add effects, creatively that are helping your mix. If something does not sound good, delete it. If a sample is conflicting a lot, replace it. If the pads you chose to use suck, replace them. In most professional mixes you will hear a LOT of things going on in the background.

Do you have all those layers in your mix? Compare the reverbs, delays to your mix vs the pro.
What about distortion? Do you have enough distortion? Also, try high passing some elements? Just like with low end, you can't have a lot of high end on everything, you lose perception. Most drum samples are mono btw. When you select samples, turn them to mono if the stereo information they have is in confict with the rest of the mix. Then you choose where the sample goes in the stereo spectrum.

You have to know, you will still not get close to professional sound without a professional mixing/mastering engineer. You can't compete.

I'm sure im missing a lot of things but yeah, you have to remember to do everything during production and mixing.


EDIT; One thing many ppl do is, remove a lot of information from the 100hz-300hz because that's what they hear, or becuase their room is booming. DON'T OVER CUT.

 

Instead of panning, have you ever tried to do something like this?
This kinda creates a very unique sound. Try on a piano, or other instrument that you want panned but not lost in the mix.
http://prntscr.com/djufhh

 

Do this, on the master channel, trust me... it will open up the space in your mix and will give you a better perception of what should be boosted or cut.

http://prntscr.com/djuhds

 

A 'mandatory' read for everyone mixing rock music (or music in general): Spencer Lee's (Spencer26 on AS) guidance of subGENRE mixing a track: https://audiosex.pro/threads/local-rock-band-im-recording.24129/
Spencer Lee's website is loaded with good stuff, too..

 

be very careful with mid side sweeps on a master though, its better to group up your elements that are stereo and then process the mid side on them, you dont want to mess up the phase of organic instruments, especially tracked drums.

 

1.Its about musicians playing dynamically, interesting.
2.Quality gear, mics, preamps, etc.
3.EQing is 70% of mix, the better the EQ(analog boutique expensive stuff or Acustica) the easier,faster it is to mix.
4.Quality reverbs and natural sounding compressors is another 30%.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.Digital harsh mids and highs makes mixing very hard.

 

The sense of space is not so much in the mix, as it is in the human's head. Here's the science that will help you:

1. Understanding our task. We want to take something that's basically a bunch of mono signals in the middle of the mix, and spread them around left-right, up-down (if we can be bothered), and especially into the background. You will never really go "artist level" with this, if you let yourself think it's some magic plugins that you need to put on your channels. Magic plugins are fine, but understanding is even more powerful. Take a little time with 2-3 boring mono signals and use your favorite plugs to put them upfront, left, right, into the background, into background and left, etc. etc. Until it's second nature to you, you're a master of basic dimsension now.

2. Quirky human hearing only registers a big space if there is something in the far-far background. Also nice if there's a mid-ground of some kind, and foreground right in your face. The far background element can be the most boring tom drum from a cheese sample cd, it won't matter for the spaciality. The key is that it defines the "far end" to your hearing, and it flips a switch in the brain so that now the whole thing is suddenly starting to sound MASSIVE. It's like being an illusionist.

--------------

Great, now what are the most well-known Distance Cues in psychoacoustics? That would be good to memorize, because then we can "paint" with them freeform like artists do with color.

- Volume attenuation. (When the volume decreases, it automatically gives a sense of moving into the background as well.)

- Global reverberation. (this is a reverb that, as a sound moves into the background, the level of the reverb signal stays the same - so you hear more and more fx, less and less dry)

- Local reverberation (reverb that goes along for the ride with the instrument, more part of the instrument sound than the room-space).

- Filtering (soft lowpass to make sounds more distant)

- Early reflections (basically delays, that turn smooth into reverbs).


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The conjunction of delay + reverb or reverb + delay gives very different effects, an almost infinite variety of spatial tricks is possible if you filter, compress, distort etc. the signal going in the reverb+delay chain, or the signal after the rev+delay. The way it sounds surprises everyone when they first hear it, it does not sound how you'd think it would, again because of psychoacoustic trickery going on. The brain struggles to understand what messed up kind of space this delay+reverb is "describing" and this is exciting, and creates huge space effects or adds subtle beauty depending on what you need. Gating the input into rev+delay allows you to tailor the effect so that the less dynamic parts don't get effected, allowing you to free up that "mush" that the chain can sometimes create.

Delays on their own are extremely powerful. Short delays under 40ms sound nothing like delays. Longer delays can be panned so that guitar plays in roughly the Right speaker, but the delays/echoes from that guitar come from the Left speaker. When Left/right signals are delayed against each other or filtered differently, it creates a new sensation of space that wasn't there before. The combinations/colors you can apply armed with a little simple knowledge like this, are almost unlimited.

 

Room mics. Stunt mics.

 

I am eternally grateful to spencer. Especially the way he gave criticism and instruction without all the sugar coating and a firm hand. He definitely opened the door for me and made me realize that my plugins are more like paint colors to an artist and not just algorithms. Too bad I still suck, but I am way better than I was then. Now my ears are more sensitive to the nuances of compressors and Im always improving. Plus I learned a few tricks along the way. Stuff Ive never seen in a tutorial (and Ive watched hundreds of them) It was a lot of fun and I really appreciate him taking the time to walk me through it.
Heres a link to his site if your interested. He has a lot of good tips and tutorials on there so you dont have to sort through all thats out there. He did the work for us. Thanks again @spencer26
http://spencerlee.audio/

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2016

You are being too harsh on yourself bro.
I think your issue may be more of personal nature.You dont trust yourself, confidence.
You have to realize that there is no perfect mix, there is only your mix.
I listened to your mix in that thread and it was good, the problem was that you kept on going when there was no need.
Fatigue is our biggest enemy

 

@Von_Steyr
Yup, I can mix a track forever if I let it get too far. I need to know when its time to stop. When I was younger I used to draw and sketch, mostly pencil. I couldnt hang my artwork up because I was always editing it on the walls. I still do the same thing but its in a piano roll or an eq now.

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2016

I know where you are coming from.You are probably a perfectionist by nature, as i am, it really can be an obstacle sometimes.

 

5 Ways to Create Depth in Your Mix w/ Ganesh Singaram

 

A sample example would be appreciated before any comments …

Many times I listen "young" producers playing their stuff, many times it's over compressed. Because you thing it maybe sounds loud enough but wicked compare to pro mix. Just a though, like this, out of my head

 

Ok, guys. I updated the initial posting with an example. This is actually one I posted a sample of while I was working on it trying to figure out a vocal wash effect I wanted on the backgrounds. Just that little excerpt (with a really crappy mix) had 311 plays.

It's actually gotten a little better since the initial day I posted. I did some HP/LP on the guitars, and notched the bass around 50 Hz so the kick would poke through a little more. I feel like that removed some of the mud, and what I filtered out wasn't contributing to the mix as other elements were covering it anyways.