At the same period (1992+) I was not caring about daws but only hardware, yesterday I was browsing an old Keyboard magazine of 1993 and I was struck by an ad of Opcode StudioVision. Why? That is the most clever hybrid piano roll I've ever seen. I don't feel much easy on modern piano rolls and I find difficult to trace notes, but for people who are get used to read staff, these piano roll below is the solution. No need to mark quavers and all the values, everything is noted as a normal piano roll but within a staff, its reading it's immediate. Does anyone know if today there is some daw or plugin or Reaper script that does something like this?
I'll take the liberty of posting the result of the AI perplexity. Do you use Windows or macOS? The Opcode StudioVision piano roll you saw in the 1993 Keyboard magazine ad was indeed innovative for its time, combining elements of traditional music notation with the visual simplicity of a piano roll. This hybrid approach made it easier for musicians familiar with staff notation to work in a digital environment. Unfortunately, there isn't a direct equivalent to this exact hybrid piano roll in modern DAWs. However, some DAWs and plugins offer features that partially address this need: Notation view: Many DAWs, including Reaper, offer a notation view alongside the piano roll, allowing users to switch between the two. Note names in piano roll: Reaper and other DAWs allow you to display note names inside the piano roll notes, which can help with note identification8. Grid lines: Most modern DAWs use grid lines to represent beats and measures, which can help with rhythmic orientation. While not exactly the same as the StudioVision hybrid, these features can help make piano rolls more readable for those accustomed to staff notation. As for Reaper specifically, there are no built-in scripts or plugins that replicate the StudioVision hybrid piano roll. However, Reaper's flexibility and active user community mean that it might be possible to create a custom script or extension to achieve a similar effect. You could consider posting a feature request on the Reaper forums or reaching out to script developers in the community. In the meantime, you can try using Reaper's existing features to make the piano roll more readable: Enable note names in the piano roll. Use the notation view in conjunction with the piano roll. Adjust grid settings to clearly show beats and measures. Experiment with color-coding notes based on pitch or velocity to improve visual distinction. While these solutions may not fully replicate the StudioVision hybrid piano roll, they can help make the modern piano roll more accessible to those who are more comfortable with staff notation.
My bad, I should have told. Windows only. The solutions given by AI are naive at best, and the real answer is "there isn't a direct equivalent to this exact hybrid piano roll in modern DAWs", crystal clear. Now think of this situation: you want to make a quick piano midi recording, let's say Debussy - Claire de lune. In this case daw is not used as you would with, say, techno track, so you never use quantization (unless you want to go mad), you basically use it as analog tape and neglect measures, bpm, tempo, etc. That means that if you have to edit (delete/correct) some note with that (long gone) hybrid roll, you recognize instantly the required section (no matter measures, tempo) because you remember the notation staff, I'm not here to say that you can't with traditional roll, it's just a LOT easier. The only thing relieving a little bit in traditional roll is the note names (as well grid), so you don't have to wiggle eyes forth and back from the left keyboard to the notes. Notation toggle won't help at all, because midi recording is unrelated with tempo daw, it's just a total visual mess, if you try you'll get the point.
Have you looked at other notation programs? What is the Best Music Notation Software to Use? ➜ Sibelius: https://www.avid.com/sibelius ➜ Finale: https://www.finalemusic.com/ ➜ Noteflight: https://www.noteflight.com/ -->Studio One - Notion 6 https://de.presonus.com/pages/notion --> Steinberg - Dorico includes piano roll. www.steinberg.net/de/dorico/ A User says: Back in the days I used FL Studio because of it's piano roll. It's pretty, it's intuitive. But then I switched to Reaper (better performance, stability and audio recording/editing) and never looked back since. It takes a while to set up to suite your workflow, but to me it wasn't an issue as at the moment I already knew exactly what I want from piano roll. I've heard Studio One has awesome midi-editing capabilities too. It less cpu-effective compared to Reaper, but looks prettier and is more intuitive to start with.
Nostalgia aside, what are the actual benefits you see in that screen capture; that you can edit midi data on the same arrangement screen as audio tracks?
As I pointed, recording with any notation editor free from tempo frame is a total mess, no matter the brand. I already tried several notation sw, but they all are good only if you have to create staff by the state of the art, and I'm not interested in creating staff, but only editing/correcting notes that I previously recorded. That hybrid view can point immediately to the "wrong" section, having in mind the original staff I played. What nostalgia? It's just that I never saw this kind of midi editor, that coincidentally would be exacly what I need for my purposes. I don't give a damn about audio tracks, I just need a solo (piano) midi track, I should have cut the picture.
Hello @orbitbooster, I found another one: Introduction MidiEditor is a free software providing an interface to edit, record, and play Midi data. The editor is able to open existing Midi files and modify their content. New files can be created and the user can enter his own composition by either recording Midi data from a connected Midi device (e.g., a digital piano or a keyboard) or by manually creating new notes and other Midi events. The recorded data can be easily quantified and edited afterwards using MidiEditor. Features Easily edits, records and plays Midi files can be connected to any Midi port (e.g., a digital piano or a synthesizer) Tracks, channels and Midi events can be edited Event quantization Control changes can be visualized Automatic Updates Free Available for Windows and Linux Note MidiEditor was developed by Markus Schwenk. It is entirely written in C++ (Qt) and is available for the platforms Linux and Windows. Should MidiEditor be a software which is helpful for you and which you use often, please let the developer and other users know by providing feedback. Moreover, the developer worked on MidiEditor in his (rare) sparetime and offers it for free. So, when you feel like it, pay him a coffee (or two). Please also feel free to contact the developer in case you have any ideas which could help to improve the editor or in the case you found any bugs you want the developer to fix. www.midieditor.org or the: MixPad MIDI Editor - MIDI Recording, Editing and Sequencing Software --> www.nch.com.au/midi/index.html Last edited: Mar 2, 2025
Thank you, I'll have a look, but they seem like normal piano rolls, so there is no use, I can go on with Ableton or Reaper, same stuff. What it really struck me in Studiovision was the piano staff pentagram overlapped on grid, that would ease immensely on the quick midi recordings I do. But as I said, I'll go on with the traditional piano roll way.
I've yet to try it, but that's what Aria Maestosa does, the piano roll can be superimposed on the notation staves:: https://ariamaestosa.github.io/ariamaestosa/docs/index.html
Unfortunately it's what I feared: it does a clusterfuck as any other notation editor, that was expected. That's why the only way out can be an hybrid piano roll - notes as bars with lenght as duration and not values and all within a pentagram. Thanks in anyway. See below (that should be ELP Trilogy intro - except the first random notes):
I found this editor really quick fast and simple, it's a pity that it does not have note names, that forces me to wiggle and strain eyes. Edit: on the other hand, Aria Maestosa is terribly slow. Last edited: Mar 3, 2025 at 9:49 AM
You could also try Overture, it's actually a for pay program that's been around for some time, I think it has something similar. I've also yet to try it, but it does load VST2 and VST3, as well: https://sonicscores.com/overture/#
Crescendo Music Notation Software --> www.nch.com.au/notation/index.html Denemo is a free music notation program --> www.denemo.org
I was an Opcode Studio Vision user during this era. It was indeed good software. I actually didn't remember that it had the cleffs broken out until you mentioned it. I was more interested in the fact that you could already have audio in line with MIDI... this was really cutting edge back then. At least some of the design team behind Studio Vision ended up at Digidesign, where they helped implement MIDI into ProTools. Against the grain, I have always enjoyed using MIDI in ProTools (minus the intermittent bugginess over the years.) I have always found it to be very thoughtfully implemented and a joy to use as the MIDI data is so seamlessly in line with the audio data. In the early 00's I worked for a film composer and we used Digital Performer because at that time it was a popular choice for Hollywood arrangers. Digital Performer is really kind of amazing software, although I never 100% got comfortable with the interface. One of the amazing things it could do in the piano scroll window (even back then) was allow you to temporally lock a free-time MIDI performance in place, and then physically drag beat/bar lines to where they should fall on the MIDI performance. It would dynamically create tempo events to compensate for the shifting beat/bar lines. And then you could open notation view, and presto, your free time performance would now display meaningful notation. (Digital Performer was also pioneering in the quality of their notation view.) That might be an angle for you.
If I'm not grossly misunderstanding this, something is being overlooked here. The notes in the piano roll don't actually correspond to the notes on the staff. Meaning vs the clef being shown on the left. The first chord in the treble clef according the the piano roll would spell out as E, F G, B. That's not what it would be on those parts of the clef if read as notation.
This is a great sw I'm testing right now it still has problems that I try to solve in importing midi files, but it's really something (also a bit expensive on the cons side). I'll explain later what I found. BTW as I read from wikipedia, this sw has its roots in the Opcode company itself. I knew the first already, is good as notation but it doesn't have piano roll, (Mixpad has it, but is comparable to Midieditor). For the second I think is the same, at least from the pictures. Great, even much more than what I need, actually I just need to delete/correct notes events that "slipped" in free-time recording. But... Gosh Digital Performer is a full daw, I just need a quick midi editor! I saw too that there are overlapping notes on the staff - maybe that was a tampered picture for ads purpose, nonetheless I think the idea of a staff with note (duration) bars is awesome, again, just for free-time recording. The only doubt I have - how does this hypothetical hybrid roll can manage accidentals or even double accidentals no matter the staff key (using colour?, tag?)? Last edited: Mar 4, 2025 at 2:03 PM
I can see why the initial reaction would be WHOA THAT'S COOL. But yeah it doesn't actually make much sense. I started computer music with Vision, Digital Performer and Pro Tools around 1995. I remember there were other music, uh... apps... (they were definitely not called apps back then haha) that had similar kinds of visuals with notes being represented on a staff, but done in an almost tablature-like, non-notation kind of way. I guess the naiveté was just a thing back then since it was all so new.
