Just another typical Xupito bender - too pissed to finish the job, too selfish to call for help - let's give him a break.

 

All valid points. This subject is too deep for me to comprehend. I just like to associate God with research so when someone nags me about religion (I'm an engineer), I'll have an escape plan

 

but NASA bro.

"oh, ye of too much faith"**

**5 words -- 5 the most significant number -- number of letters in the word 'truth' = 5 -- last word number of letters (noun) = 5 -- ye (subject) = 25 5 = 5 fives (the angels number) + 5 = 6 fives in total.

 

Yep - our brain's awesome ability to compartmentalise. An asset - until abused - and then sometimes scary.
"This life is just a paltry rehearsal - give me that glorious afterlife"
"Errmm - but maybe not - better step out of the way of that bus"

 

This is totally up to each individual if there is or isn't a GOD or supreme entity.

 

No - I respectfully disagree - that is ambiguous and I claim you must unpack that more clearly.

[1] Yes - It IS totally up to each individual to decide for themself what they believe - totally true.
Believe what you want - it is absolutely your choice. I assume that's what you meant and I'll agree.
I'll go further and say it's immoral to disagree with that and it's immoral to interfere with other people having the freedom to choose (as many religions strive to do!)

ok so far... but beliefs don't make things true.

[2] It is NOT up to any or all of the entire human species to affect the brute facts of whether a God does or does not exist.
There is a REAL FACT to the matter - a fact about the universe that we do not and can not affect or influence with our lofty opinions. - and maybe it's a fact that we can never confirm or disconfirm.
ANY claim we make about the matter might be true or might be false - but the universe couldn't care less either way.
It IS what it IS. It does NOT become TRUE (or FALSE) by wishful thinking.

Allegations about facts that are unknowable, and impossible to prove or disprove, are just typical and countless, we can invent a million more today if we want.

We will probably never know for sure about that beautiful, invisible, massless, energyless, quantum teapot orbiting around Pluto.
I choose to believe it's there.

 

Last edited: May 9, 2022

everybody knows appeals to authority win bro.

"This life is just a paltry rehearsal - give me that glorious afterlife" -- divisible by 2 = true
"Errmm - but maybe not - better step out of the way of that bus" -- 13 devils number = lie

science.

quantum [added for no particular reason]

 

Replace the word "God" with "nature".
ANYTHING that conflicts with doing that is IN ERROR!
ANYTHING that is not compatible with that IS A HUMAN MISINTERPRETATION.

There IS ONLY ONE THING that can account for all the claims of humans about "GOD" and that is "all of NATURE"
So, start using the word "nature" instead of "god', and you will begin to see how your pathetic human interpretation diminishes and demeans the idea of "God".
It was warned: Do not even dare SPEAK the name of "God".
As SOON AS YOU DO, even the most intelligent and with the best intentions have diminished the reality.

So, perhaps we can say "nature" and allow that we only know a tiny bit about nature, and that we are only even aware of a small part of nature, and that our concepts of "god" only encompass the concepts of one life form on a small planet.
Even if we are the only life forms capable of having concepts, that only emphasizes how limiting our ideas are compared with reality.

 

That's assuming that the creator was created.

 

youre all praying to a supermassive white hole that spat us out 30ish billion years ago

 

Hey guyz. The Holy Quran has also it's mathematical algorithms.

And the Number 19 (which is a prime number, and also represents the smallest and the highest digit, 1 and 9) plays a very important role.
e.g.

- The Holy Quran consists of 114 chapters/sura (114/19=6)
- Every 114 chapter begins with the opening phrase Basmala, which consists of 19 letters in Arabic (Bismillahirrahmanirrahim), 4 words (Ism- Allah-ErRahman-ErRahim). Ism appears 19 times in the whole Quran, Allah 2698 (19x142) times, ErRahman 57 (19x3), ErRahim 114 (19x6).
- A lot of chapters have some letters before the chapter begins itself. They meant nothing until a scientist named Rahid Khalifa discovered this mathematical miracle by accident. e.g. e, l, m. Without a meaning. But if u count these letters in the sura that follows, they appear as a whole multiple of 19.
Other signs in the book. The honey bee has 16 chromosomes. There is a sura called the bee and it's the 16th sura, The sura called shams (sun) is the 91. sura of the Holy Book (There are only 91 natural findable elements in our solar system that our sun could produce. And we know that fusion of He atoms to H happens in the sun. And the sura/chapter called shams (sun), every verse of this sura ends with He or H.
The element iron comes 26 times in the Holy Book. 26 is the atom number of iron. There are massive findings about the scientific signs and pointings. As I said before u don't need a religion to find God. Just do science and u will find him there.

 

I need to follow that advice - I need to follow that advice - I need to follow that advice
Oh crap I'm going to fail again -

You can't have it both ways. Do you understand that? Does a phrase like "logical contradiction" mean anything to you?

Take your pick Option (A) OR Option (B) but be consistent - they are mutually exclusive!
Otherwise you are just logically incoherent - and that's a distressing state for a brain to be in.

Option (A) Every thing that exists, required some form of creation, and hence was created.
This is not quite the same as your vacuous soundbyte "Where there is design, there is a Designer" but it's close enough for rock and roll in this pedestrian level debate.
OR
Option (B) Some things can exist which did not require creation, and hence were not created.
That is the incoherent free pass that you so desperately want to grant to your mythical deity.

So, take your pick Option (A) or Option (B) - there are no other options!
Believe one or believe the other - just make your mind up! stop flip flopping around.

If you like Option (A) then you have to explain how God got created or just accept that God is quite literally nothing.
If you like Option (B) then the Universe is happy to accept your proposition and say "Yep that's me, I didn't need a creator".

Please note that this really elementary reasoning was obvious to many people hundreds and hundreds of years ago.
For millennia, shoddy theologians have performed every pathetic trick in the book to squirm out of it, always to no avail.
It should be a source of acute embarrassment for anyone in the 21st Century to not recognise this and to still trot out incoherent garbage that insists on "creators for everything" whilst granting a mythical deity a free pass to squirm out of the same requirement.

When will people with these incoherent ideas stop trying to play tennis without a net?
The only thing you achieve by disrespecting basic logic is a demonstration that you have zero interest in figuring out what is actually true and what is actually false.
If that's your preference - then fine - just don't be surprised when only fools take your arguments seriously.

 

Last edited: May 9, 2022

One would hope that this lovely sarcasm, unconstrained by reality, could win the prize for the most preposterous comment in the thread. Alas, it's not even close.
The people posting woo woo numerology here are scaling the dizzy heights of lunacy far higher than your rational sarcasm can aspire to.
Better luck next time.

 

nature is now the UNSPEAKABLE (not a thing). so nature now is not a thing.

there are no need for the, "ANYTHING...", rules -- because we are no longer talking about things. great! we are now speaking in the abstract -- very useful.

"There IS ONLY ONE THING", problem. we are talking about an abstract concept. i.e not a thing.

are we talking in the abstract? does "all of NATURE"(contextually posited as a thing?) include non-thing abstract concepts?(all the claims of humans about "GOD", "pathetic human interpretation").

"demeans the idea of 'God'". is the "idea of god" a thing, because god is not.

"diminished the reality", is your demeaning 'idea of reality' a thing("all of NATURE")? subject to human misinterpretation. even though you have argued 'reality' is essentially unknowable, you claim to know. maybe it is only your 'idea of reality' that is diminished, but you sort of made that not provable within the scope of your assertion.

you have adequately described the your unspeakable, unknowable, whatever -- despite saying it is not possible. you just can not prove it.

this all sounds like an argument against conscious awareness.


poetically:

expulsion from the garden past. regret. hear you in lineage of the sin of the fruit -- made in the image of the word.

 

Hello @Ad Heesive, thank you for your comment and nice that there are still awake people here, honestly I could not get out of the amazement when I read the article of @Alpha0ne, I was a moment speechless when the new number 9 came into play and as always everything could be shared. One calculates the world in such a way as one likes that. The result is already determined.

Man well that We 7.8 billion people on this planet have and thus also 7.8 billion chances to do something different or better.

I want to give my contribution to the numbers. I find it exciting that one has made the entire language from 26 letters, our alphabet. Today we have books and thus knowledge that can be acquired because someone has written it down. I also think it's great that music consists of only 12 tones and what you can do with 12 tones.

 

OR OPTION C : The Designer / Creator has no beginning or no ending. In other words, Infinite!

 

I see that also in such a way, no beginning and no end.

Man must constantly learn how nature works, so that he can survive. He studied the birds and built flying machines and at some point we had airplanes. Nature also knows no waste - everything is transformed and made usable again.

The apple for example has the seeds for an apple tree in itself. The tree for example, from a small seed becomes a new tree, the tree carries also again seeds and the construction plan is already in the seed.

Besides your and my horizon of consciousness, there are millions of other states of consciousness, see the animal species. we have the language and can communicate. From the first letterpress with the spread of knowledge to the computer forum almost in real time.

The atoms were already there and are everywhere, somehow we managed to create a power grid. And today you can send information through a cable. What a progress. However, today we have an economic system, which is based on the exploitation of raw materials and the exploitation of human labor. Add to that the destruction of our livelihoods. It was the love of money.

And here, too, some people are proving to be very resourceful and are working out and thinking up solutions to the problems. Will our efforts be enough? In the beginning it was gods with the Greeks, Thor's lightning - misinterpreted as punishment or the "God willing" theory of Allah - it is in Allah's hands. Today, thanks to satellites and research, we know how it all really works.

The believers are the first to die in a catastrophe, those who survive are usually the people who take their fate into their own hands and look for solutions and then act. In the Middle Ages, there were still witch burnings, all in the name of the church, today we have almost everywhere courts and laws.

 

np. if you are an engineer you can scrap the 'causal link' and design some other method of attachment.

thank you father for alleviating me of the guilt/sin of arguing ad adsurdum. it is cheap and nasty, but arguably reaches a level of appropriateness.

 

Firstly, that IS Option (B) Some things can exist which did not require creation
You haven't provided a new option at all! - can you really not see that?

So, (your idea - your words) something can exist which has no beginning and no ending. In other words Infinite!
So, the Universe says - "yep - that's me, I have no beginning, no ending, In other words Infinite!"

Note: I am not making ANY claims about this vague Infinity solution being correct or incorrect.
I'm just trying to get you to see the bleedingly obvious, and to try, just once, to be logically consistent - even when it makes your pre-assumed answer look uncomfortably incoherent.

Just think about it - IF you grant that possibility of Infinite existence to anything at all,
then you cannot deny that same solution to the universe itself, and in so doing, you do away with the need for a creator.
This is truly basic stuff - I mean really really basic stuff - is this impossible for you?

 

Last edited: May 9, 2022

You've said all. There are no human religions, no human egocentrism etc., etc., etc. Beacuse the God created all of them. Including human notions and human stupidity, and human blindness. He invented them and then created them. Good action speaks truer than words.

I don't undestand why people cannot see it. They always say it but cannot understand it.

When the creator judges his creation he judges himself. For him, there is nobody else to blame for or accuse of anything except himself.