well its tax time and time to upgrade my question is should i buy a factory pc (like i have for years) or build one i would like to stay under 1000$ right now i have a hp desktop 6 gigs ram and a tb hard drive with a i3 proc if building is better im fine with that im pretty good with computers but building a pc is something totally new to me i dont even know where to begin what are good mobo, fans, cards ect should i get some firewire or am i even able to?i want it to be as fast as possible and i run everything in 64 bit and where do i get the case to put everything? or next question since my computer is only two years old should i just upgrade everything inside it?and any responses can u share links so i can look at pricing ect thanks in advance for any help

 

Which generation i3 is it? It's not incredibly hard to build a computer but there are annoying steps to this process in that you have to calculate a lot of different variables and find a million parts if you're picky and it can develop into a whole project. Mobo will depend on your needs really because if you're not putting your video card into SLI then why get something capable that costs more, requires a bigger case, etc.? With only a grand to spend you will need to keep prices low on your parts and you need a case, power supply, fans, motherboard, processor, RAM, a hard drive, a disc drive, etc. Also you have to calculate the total draw on all the components compared to the wattage of your power supply and most are around 80% efficient so you have to allot for that. Really if I were you I would save a little more money so you can make a build that will last longer or you will end up having to do it all over again soon. Either way I'd start slow and do some research on parts at places like Tom's Hardware and other sites that compare, rank and give detailed information. Then pretty much Google is your friend, just type in for example computer cases 2014 (this will depend on the motherboard size) Concerning Firewire I don't give a crap when I have USB 3:

FireWire 400 – 400Mbps
USB 2.0 – 480Mbps
FireWire 800 – 800Mbps
eSATA – 3Gbps
USB 3.0 – 5Gbpps
Thunderbolt – 10Gbps

This is a video on promising gaming cases for 2014 seen at CES:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7buvkxw89D4

 

From my point of view, you get more for the money if you choose to build your own pc by parts. Usually a "factory" pc is 65-70% price of components and 30-35% price of assembling(which is ridiculous for a advanced pc user). So overall you get more for the money if you have alot of knowledge about computers.(If you think about building one, ask a experienced friend, you should find someone to help you out)

 

I would absolutely second what Catalyst said, because whatever components you choose, nobody will give you a guarantee that they will work together flawlessly, and believe me, they not always do.

I think it all depends on what you want.
Also you haven't mentioned if a Laptop would be an option.

I also recently thought about building my own i7-quad system but ended up buying a Mac Mini because it's very small, power efficient, silent, and has everything that I need for Music Production.
It's funny that in the end, it wasn't so much more expensive than custom-building a system, and the current Mini can be upgraded to 16GB RAM and second internal SATA drive (SSD or whatever) if you like.
The only thing I could not use is PCI/PCI express cards, but with the good, low-latency USB Audio Interfaces support in MacOSX this isn't really a problem.
The fun thing is that if you prefer Windows, you can install it too!

If you really decide to build your custom system anyway, I have often seen that Intel motherboards are a rather safe bet in terms of compatibility.

 

Honestly look at Gigabyte Motherboards and Intel Cpu there one of the best especially down the road if you consider building a PC and Hackintosh in one system

 

But does the ready-made computers guarantee you that they will work together flawlessly? Do they are made by gods? They are just pc parts assambled together. Now the bad part is that a ready-made pc you can't open it to clean the dust without voiding the warranty. Also when you buy separate parts, you have warranty for each piece and you can open the pc case whenever you want. If you talk about data warranty, there's no ready-made computer or custom-made computer to guarantee you that. The advantage you got with a custom made pc is that you can get a kick-ass silent case loaded with the best Noctua or Nanoxia ultra-noise high-flow fans and a kickass air-cooling dual-fan cooler (because the water-cooling kits usually got pump noises). You can also buy fans for rams, fans for HD, fans for everything, all the pc parts being assambled together on a great quality mobo with golden caps and reliable low-noise PSW and you're ready to rock. Where's the headaches on assembling a custom pc? For me is a joy. *yes* i assambled custom pc for my friends too regarding their budget and etc. It's not that big deal as long as you know how to use the components, which is not so hard.

 

If you want to spend the time, then YES. If you want to pick the best individual components for your taste, then yes again.
I used to do exactly that for years, but today I'm just fed up with it ;-)

 

Tgunz, there are always experienced PC maniacs here that you can ask about it and that will gladly reply, suggest and give an advice.

For starters, I build monster PCs for 1000$ that are silent and made from quality parts. I don't build garbage, but garbage that also works nicely can be build for around 400-500$. I also wouldn't necessarily recommend to go with Intel CPU because top AMD CPUs go for much less and give you much more than an i3. That's where you save first 100$. ;) Not to mention that new AMD CPUs come with excellent graphic cards so you don't have to worry about it either. Saves another 100$ if not more. ;) I am currently assembling an AMD based computer for a customer who wanted a "budget monster" for audio. It's based on AMD A10 6800K Black Edition 4.1GHz CPU that costs around 200$, a Gigabyte "Sniper" G1 A88x motherboard that costs around 150$, 2x4GB of low latency [CL7] RAM from G.Skill that works at 1600MHz ["Pi" series or "Eco" series] that cost around 150$, Corsair CS550M 550W power supply [you could go with 400+ wattage with this build] that costs 150$, Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD for OS/temp/sample banks [over 200$] and one Western Digital 1TB HDD [a bit more than a 100$] for audio recording and sample banks, too. For silent cooling I usually go with Scythe CPU coolers like Samurai or Ninja and additional Scythe 120mm silent fans if needed, but it's usually not. I dump the stock coolers into a garbage can or give them to charity. One on the CPU and one in PSU should be enough. These Scythe fans fail very rarely and are really quiet, I love them and they don't cost an arm and a leg. ;) Now all you have to add to it is a case and I can recommend CoolerMaster cases because you get a lot for the price [~100$] if you need a case. I also usually recommend Logitech mouse and Logitech keyboard but nothing too fancy. A 20$ mouse and a 20$ keyboard will do just fine.

When you find out the exact prices of this "rig" you'll see that it's not much over 1000$. You can do without the SSD or buy it later and then you have the money for it already. It's a silent beast, I tell you.

I also have one Intel i7 Haswell based here that I build for a customer but that one costs weeeeeelll beyond 1000$ even though the configuration is rather similar, the CPU was around 400$ and the Gigabyte Z87X UD3H motherboard was 200$ alone. Of course it is a faster PC than the other one but I wouldn't say the difference is big or even perceptible, especially with games... but we're talking audio computers here. ;) This other PC also has a Corsair HX 650W PSU that costs well over 200$ and it's *very* silent and 16GB [4x4GB] of the same G.Skill "Pi" CL7 memory sticks. This computer also has a PCIe firewire [maybe 50$...] card because he uses a TC Konnekt 48 [like yours truly ] and Digi002 audio interfaces that have firewire. I've got only great experiences with firewire interfaces and even fw drives too because it's not all about the "white paper" speed. ;) It's about the protocol itself and firewire is build for reliable, non-jitterish and low CPU consumption streaming of data be it audio or just data. The only better data transfer protocols than firewire currently are eSATA and thunderbolt, but I don't think thunderbolt will catch on - too expensive. So firewire is still the way to go for professional audio and video especially [cameras with fw] IMO, but for external HDDs I use eSATA almost exclusively or firewire 800 or USB 3.0, of course, but mainly eSATA. Gigabyte motherboards [and others] usually come with some eSATA ports so why do people use USB be it 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever is completely beyond me. eSATA is *the* shit! So much better than anything else for data transfer and even recording. In AHCI mode all eSATA and SATA HDDs are hot swappable like FW or USB btw. I even have eSATA port on my laptop and use it massively! :P [Lenovo Thinkpad T410, has excellent firewire port, too]

I hope this will help you and others to build their PCs. It's fun. If I could convey the feeling when you assemble your first PC... I assembled my first PC in 1997 and it was based on Intel Pentium 166 CPU, ASUS motherboard with BX chipset, whooping 32MB RAM and a few hundred MBs of SCSI HDDs. IDE was shite at the time and SATA didn't exist. Cheers!

P.S. Currently I recommend AMD based computers to clients who still use PCI audio cards because new Intel chipsets don't have native PCI any more, only PCIe and PCI works only through a bridge chip. AMD motherboards still have native PCI, so it's quicker and better. Many of my customers including me use older RME audio PCI cards that I also recommend a lot like HDSP 9632 and HDSP 9652 so to those I recommend AMD based computers. If they don't use PCI cards then I gladly recommend an Intel based PC if they can spend that kind of money. i5 "Haswell" CPUs with Intel HD4600 graphics are the best value Intel can offer and AMD A10 "Kaveri" CPUs with Radeon 8xxx graphics.

P.P.S. I approximated the prices in $ from euros, that's why all these "around" 50-100-150-200$. ;)

P.P.P.S. NEVER OVERCLOCK ANYTHING Always stick to specifications or even downclock if the temperatures are too high. I consider anything over 50-60 celsius to be too high. High temperatures destroy parts sooner no matter what anybody says. Lowering CPU voltage works best for lowering the temperature of a CPU, but you need to test it with burn-in programs like Prime95 to be sure that it works reliably.

 

my vote is to build yourself. when you build, you have complete control over the components that are used. this can have substantial cost savings and allow you to get more 'power' per dollar.

when you get a factory build, you are at the mercy of what the factory has determined to be the correct combination for the price they are selling it at.

all that being said there is also a sense of satisfaction when you are using a rig that you put together.

with your current rig, your best upgrade would be cpu and ssd. at this day and age, you should be running no less than a core i7 quad core. but you will have to upgrade your mobo. i like asus and gigabyte mobos because their low and mid range offerings have the best bang for buck. and their support and warranty are stellar.

next i would get an ssd for the os and apps. this will change your life. ssd's are cheap compared to when i first got one. be sure to get one at least 256gb. i made the mistake of getting a 128gb the first time around and ran out of space quick. use the 1tb for storage (audio, projects, samples, etc).

and finally i would upgrade ram to at least 16 gb. all of this will bring you into the new age for less than 1k.

don't worry about fans and such right now. just make sure the existing ones on the case work. the cooler that comes with the chip is more than sufficient. as long as you put thermal paste properly, you are good to go.

i built my current rig btw

cpu: intel core i7-2600k aka sandy bridge *currently oc'd to 4.5, but does 5ghz without breaking a sweat
mobo: asus maximus iv extreme-z
memory: g.skill ripjaws 16gb
video card: asus GTX560ti
ssd: ocz vertex 3 128gb
hdd: 2x 3tb wd caviar black
cooling: custom liquid cooling
fan controller: aqua computing aquaero 5
case: corsair 800d obsidian
power supply: corsair ax1200
monitor: 2x dell u2410

 

Excellent choice of components franknitty69, but bear in mind that I usually look for best price/performance/quality ratio and lower energy consumption, too. It's easy to make a fast and quality PC if every part costs more than 200$. In other words just buy the most expensive components and there you go. It works. It is harder to make a PC that performs like yours and reliable like yours for like 500$ less, but it is doable. That's where my experience and expertise comes into play. I like saving people money they needn't spend. Rather spend the additional money on microphones, preamps, cards, guitars... and my fee [I'm not cheap]. ;)

Also, to build a quiet PC *for audio* not to play latest "Crysis" on it I would either put in a discrete passively cooled VGA, not the fastest one, or avoid having a discrete VGA altogether. That's why I lately just use APUs [CPU+GPU] for my builds be it Intel or AMD. Great VGA is absolutely unnecessary for pro audio computer.

Having said that, I have a Phenom II 965 in my main PC and Nvidia GT240 VGA that is passively cooled by a Zalman VF100 cooler. 60W VGA. Works excellent. It is powerful enough so I can play some games with it if I really want but I'm not a gamer. I do play an occasional game, though and that's why I decided to have a discrete VGA in it, but I mostly play with synths, samplers, sounds, mixing etc. ;)

Oh and buying a silent and better cooler like Scythe or Thermaltake for CPU makes a huge difference in noise. Huge! I would never use a stock CPU cooler *ever*. Those are utter noise fest! Once you have a silent PC you really know how to appreciate that and especially if you're working with audio and don't have a "machine room". ;) CPU paste is actually not that important when you have a good quality cooler, but it does make a difference [a few c]. I always apply a *very thin* layer of good quality paste on everything from chipset, over VGA, to CPU. People usually forget about applying it on chipset.

Cheers!

 

Could any 'savvy' guys also comment on which OS please?

And for an audio card /interface... sineWave mentioned abive that Intel MB's don't have PCIe anymore, is that correct?
Then what are the options for an audion card in that case?
Use the onboard audio ?
Or use the onboard optical output to external device ?
Or use a USB2 external device ?
Or ...

Thanks for this topic

 

I said Intel motherboards don't have native PCI any more not PCIe, Dalmation. The option is to buy a RME HDSPe 9632 or RayDAT in that case since they are PCIe.

Onboard audio?? Is that the thingie I always disable in BIOS? But joking aside it is enough for making songs if you use ASIO4All with it. Hell, I can even imagine mastering with it if the motherboard has optical or SPDIF digital out to an outboard AD/DA converter. So no, it is not bad. It depends on what you want and need.

Speaking of which USB audio interfaces nowadays work just fine... for amateur audio needs. I hear lots of good things about new Focusrite USB interfaces. But If you're into high quality, no compromise quality audio [I am] PCI or PCIe is the best. All external streaming protocols except eSATA introduce more or less of digital jitter into audio and more latency than PCI and especially PCIe cards. That's why I use a PCI card with digital I/O [coaxial SPDIF] into external AD and separate DA all nicely synced over wordclock. RME 9652 gives the master clock and AD and DA are slaves usually, but I do change it sometimes depending on what I'm doing because AD and DA work best when they're digital masters.

 

No PC Apple Mac pro Yes it More expensive but in the long run it's worth it wink:

 

You keep telling that to yourself every day lyric8? Good. cause otherwise you'd buy a PC. Auto-suggestion is powerful stuff eh?

I have experiences with Macs. Like my wife uses a Macbook pro for years. It's such a waste of money that she finally decided to go PC when this last one 1500$ Apple investment dies. I didn't influence her decision at all! Apple advertised itself enough to her. They break and like to do that often. They suck money out of you every time it breaks. You have to pay 300$ to get 3y warranty FFS! They suck money out of you wherever they can! Apple is like DigiDesign/Avid. It's a 1500$ *PC* laptop that I can find a better one for 400$ like my second hand Lenovo T410. Apple is complete BS. if you have money to throw away though... go ahead, I absolutely *really* don't mind. As they say "to each their own".

Personally I wouldn't mind using either, but I'm really money conscious and rather buy wine and pot for those 1000$ difference, you know?

 

I really think both are good. It's more of a personal choice.

 

Just wondering could I just build little by little using existing desktop? Maybe get a good mobo install on existing then work down the line?or is that a stupid move?

 

Regarding boot-up speed I think they fucked up something with the PC and I guess Mac was a really fresh install as my wife's Mac takes about a minute to boot-up and my PCs all boot faster than their PC and so much faster than my wife's Mac. It's a 1500$ Macbook pro! In comparison, both of these PCs I've built have SSDs for OS and W7SP1 and boot up in like 15 sec. tops, more like 10sec. My PC with XP boots up in about 10 sec. from SSD. My laptop is just a little bit slower than that, also having SSD for OS. I really don't know what they've done to this PC that it boots so slowly. Actually I have a few ideas and it's got everything to do with the BIOS settings. It took a lot of time to get to the Windows booting screen. Not very "pro" of them.

Tgunz, you can upgrade slowly, but motherboard/CPU/RAM combination has to happen in one go and it is absolutely advisable to install the OS from scratch with a new motherboard. That's one of the reasons why I upgrade my computers so rarely, like every 5 years. I hate installing OS and all the plugins. Hate!

You know why I bought my wife a Mac? Because I wanted her to be safe from viruses [virii ] and she just likes Macs... but we've been talking about it recently and when this Macbook pro breaks, and it will we're sure, we'll buy a second hand laptop for 400$ and I'll install Ubuntu Linux on it for her. We're both fed up with Apple, their not-so quality PCs [means "Personal Computer"] and money grabbing policies - infernal greed. In the last four years her Macbook pro died twice and none of my computers died [I had problems with one HDD though]. All the problems [read "sucking money"] we have with computers stem from her Macbook and Apple affection. Additional 300$ just to have 3y warranty?! Apple CEOs went completely nuts with greed. Enough of that. Linux and cheap laptop, probably Lenovo or Asus. Problems over. For every user that uses Internet, Office, some picture editing, music listening and watching films only I would recommend that [95% of people]. Ubuntu Linux and a cheap laptop. All problems over. No viruses, "it just works" and all that shit. Money for pot, travelling, wine, tobacco, whatever saved.

 

Boot up time: Windows 8 x64 and a hard drive ~ 20 seconds, if I were using an SSD...

Windows 9 is where it's at. *yes*

 

Yeah, the only Linux drawback is that it boots up as slowly as OS-X. But fuck that, it's free and it doesn't break compatibility with older apps like OS-X does.

 

well SuneWave all i know is this i have been using Mac for a lot of Years with No problems and My Brother uses PC and is always Mad and Yelling at his PC Computer and i Work with no problems and something is always going wrong with his Windows system all i can say is even if you Gave me a brand New High end PC i would be to nevis to use it with Paying music clients i cant afford to lose Music Projects then i would have to give there Money Back every one i know that has used PC in music production and get paid for it it has not worked for them they lost to many Songs and No one will take them seriously thats just what i See