it does make one consider the quite nice opener price, maybe should stay that way for a while..
makes you wonder if "someone" knew... but they certainly "should have known"

behooves them to address this promptly, or they will be shooting back a lot of surly responses to the hordes of Maschine users,
can't imagine that's a good business move, even if releasing something half baked to the unsuspecting might look good
for the bottom line...

doesn't sound very "gospelly" to say the least !

 

After I replied to their support staff requesting answers to several questions about the plugin, I was asked to deactivate my license and offered a refund. Not exactly the response I was looking for and its unfortunate because Ive never had an issue with any of their products I've purchased until now. I'd also like to point out I've never experienced this kind of treatment by a company before, and considering this is a Christian-based organization, you would think it would behoove them to work with their customers in resolving existing issues. Obviously, I can not recommend supporting Gospel Musicians based on my experience.

Here is the full unedited correspondence from their support staff:

(Sent after 5 days with no response):

ME: Hi there, Just checking in to see if you have any additional news regarding stability updates for Neo-Soul Keys plug-in version in both Maschine and Cubase 9. Have any additional users notified you of similar issues or where you able to replicate the problem? Thank you.

GM: No not yet. We have hundreds of Cubase 9 users who are running fine. Our systems are running fine. We have an update coming, but nothing specific to your case.

ME: Thank you. Just out of curiosity, in cases like the Maschine errors that I am receiving, what is the typical wait for a bug fix release? Have you received any other notifications from Maschine users with the Neo-Soul Keys vst plugin?

GM: The wait is that we have to reproduce the bug. That’s the hard part. With no other Cubase or Machine users having issues and with us being able to run perfectly, we have no basis. You need to break it in order to fix it. If we can’t break it, then we can’t fix it. We need to literally get Machine and keep going and going until it breaks. We are working on a way to maybe create a log, but it’s not a simple fix a bug. How can we fix a bug we don’t see on our system.

ME: I understand. The weird thing for me is that Ive never had a problem with library releases made by Gospel Musicians until now. Out of the 350+ plugins I own and use, this is the only one that does not work properly. One thing I think could be helpful to you in isolating the issue: I'm part of a large producer community on Facebook which currently has almost 7k members, the majority of which are Maschine users. I could post on the page to let them know the issue I'm having to see if they could replicate the problem as well. Is there a trial/demo that can be downloaded by members of the community? This way they could test the plugin and submit their findings to you directly, while expediting the testing process and also promoting the plugin as well. Let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

GM: You have the “gift.” The same gift Jamal has. He breaks software where no one else can break them. It’s a gift, believe it or not. Jamal is working very hard on this. We’ll keep you posted. Even if we are silent, we are still working. The thing is that we would hope that each email we exchange is not posted on the forums though. It creates unnecessary panic when there is none. These things take time and patience and we will get this done, there is a systematic way to do things and the steps have to be followed. Thanks, Brian.

ME: Hi Brian, I like your company and supporting independent developers. Unfortunately, this situation has left us at an impasse. I've paid for a product that's not working and you're unable to answer my questions or provide a workaround. And quite frankly, your last response was simply condescending. My community suggestion was made to find a quicker fix; not to create panic. A better response from you could have possibly suggested you take it to the community to find a fix and mitigate"unnecessary panic", however, it's evident you're not as concerned with my issue as I am.

I need answers to the following questions:

1. What DAWS where Neo-Soul Keys tested on?
2. If it was tested using Maschine, how much time was spent on performance testing and verifying stability in Maschine before Neo-Soul Keys was released?
3. Is there a trial/demo available for Neo-Soul Keys so that Maschine users in my Facebook group can download and test to verify if the issues I'm experiencing with Neo-Soul Keys can be replicated?

If you can't provide answers to these simple questions, I'm left with no other option but to turn to public forums and social media groups who are proactive at finding solutions and value fixing issues. Thank you.

GM: We will refund you within an hour. Thanks for giving us a try…..Please got to your Activation and Deactivate it so that it is not tied to your computer.

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2017

Happy enough with Steinberg version and it's not like Keyscape isn't pretty good enough at this sort of thing.
My fav ele piano sound is this one,
Lovely sounding synth, I had to damn them for the introductory pricing when I'm trying to save.

 

For what its worth, I wasn't exactly able to reproduce your issue, @aymat. I didn't have any notes dropping out.

However, I am using Maschine on an iMac - OSX 10.11.6. So, maybe that determines our difference of experience. But, Maschine does crash when changing presets. This only happened when I had several groups open. I was not maxed out on RAM (24 GB total) or CPU. I'm not sure what caused the crash. But, it only happened while I was using Neo-Soul Keys Studio. Hopefully, that helps, @GospelMusicians. I'm sure this bug will be fixed.

See video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2tibwc0xa9hqu3t/Neo-Soul Keys Bug Test 1.mov?dl=0

 

@Xyenz Fyxion thank you for posting. I just watched your video and essentially, its the same thing that's happening to me. The plugin simply wont function properly in Maschine.

Its unfortunate because Brian at @GospelMusicians insisted that no one had reported any issues and that the plugin was working as it should. He even went as far as to say "We have an update coming, but nothing specific to your case". Clearly, this is not true and I'm not the only one experiencing the same problem. My personal opinion is that the plugin they created was not fully tested before they released it to the public (hence the reason why the refused to provide any answers to my questions), found themselves in a situation which is embarrassing, and now are playing damage control rather than be forthright about it.

Its not uncommon for these things to happen. Its the reality of software development and I'm perfectly aware of that. I'll even go as far being proactive in order to help a business find a solution to the problem. But choosing to be dismissive and indifferent rather than address the issue is simply unacceptable and speaks volumes about how a company conducts business. I've supported @GospelMusicians before by purchasing their other libraries. I've even written some very nice things about them online. But I wont continue to support or recommend a company who ignore customer concerns or choose to refund their money in order to "make them go away".

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2017

@aymat

Personally Aymat, as much as I have a disdain for some of your views on other topics and your totally vulgar avatar(Where's a mod when you need one..?). When you're right you're right!

I own several GospelMusician products as well and don't find the response given to you in your issue righteous at all. And yes, considering that Jamal and his company represent themselves as a "Christian" company I would expect a much greater level of response or "Caring" about resolving anyone's issue. The fact that they are willing to lose a consumer by offering a surrender of obligation through refund, is offensive and reprehensible. And to think I was about to hit the buy button...

I use Maschine and Cubase 9 and don't really want those issues. Now, I'm not in panic, just joining you in sending a message to Jamal... I am interested still in that product, but stand on hold until those things that should be fixed and changed are, as well as the attitude of any one representing @GospelMusicians.

Even if your not a "Christian", right is right and fair is fair.

 

i took the plunge and upgraded too , i´m not happy at all too , a few crashes when you switch presets etc . and i did not like neo Souls Keys Studio as its own plugin . i also think after ive seen that it are made with HISE Framework which are still beta and not ready completly according to Hartman .

i would also like to know as in the marketing are written :

All of the VKFX Vintage Effects from Overloud
VKFX Included as Standalone FX to use in your DAW

i had a look in the manual and somewhere and didnt seen or found anything mentioned "licensed to Overloud" . is it real Overloud VKFX Suite ?



personal i wonder why they have go away from uvi engine as it has and works fine and why it gots discontinued .

 

@blaqmatic Glad we could agree on something and appreciate your post

Like yourself, I'm still interested in the plugin, even if I was forced to take a refund I didn't ask for. I simply wanted answers to a few questions and went as far as to offer suggestions to help find a solution. Although I did not appreciate the way I was treated by @GospelMusicians support staff, I still think they make good products, even if this one failed to hit the mark. Issues with software is understandable, but treating your customers in a dis-respectable manner is not.

I've already reached out to Jamal on Facebook and Youtube and I'm curious to see if the radio silence will continue or if some kind of public statement will be made.

 

i dont think there will be an public statement they will remains silent about those questions , due to the public and markeeting hype . and i´m shocked myselves to see this support answere from Gospelmusicians .

and i would like to have an answere to my question above too , but i have not much hope for an answere .

and btw i dont use Maschine and had those preset switch crashing , i also had this 2 times in the standalone Version .

 

truth be told, there's hardly a single software developer in the whole world, who happened to release version 1.0 of anything, that was already working nicely, so he could just leave it at that. I don't know any. do you? this means fixes and updates are inevitable, wherever you like it or not. I wish there wasn't any broke n' fix, but hey, it's life.

it's the thing with instant buys and pre-orders. I see it was a tempting intro price why you rushed it and made an instant buy, but ideally, you don't wanna do it with the new software products, whatever it is, if you don't wanna serve as a guinea pig for developer's experiments and be disappointed, until they find a solution for you. I think, you wanna take your time, wait until they receive negative feedback from the users and fix all the oversights and bugs, and buy it some time later, maybe on Xmas or whatever, get it any time they'd make a sale offer. yes, I know, patience is a real virtue these days and people just won't wait, but in my opinion, with brand new products, you wanna take your time and let them fix. if you disagree, that's fine by me, but this is my point of view.

you may not like the company's response, though I don't think they handled you too bad, at least they provided a refund, while many other companies would tell you to fuck off and be just fine, especially with such demands of the answers about the development process. usually they'd tell you this: "sorry, we can't tell you, it's a company policy, fuck off". you know, they could even prove it works with Machine. they'd say: "hey, it works with Machine on our systems, and the fact that it doesn't work with your personal copy of Machine on your personal computer, doesn't in the slightest mean the product doesn't work. your issue is custom". point! why should we refund you any money for a working product? they could tell you this and be just fine. maybe because they're Christian-based or whatever, they didn't do it to you and did a nice refund. but they could screw you like: "well, maybe it's the things on your side, who knows"... some companies would do this shit to you and would not give two fucks about it.

I don't think they'd go that far and mess with Overloud's trademarks if only they didn't want a big lawsuit coming their way. I think, Jamal started to work with Overloud since 2011 or something, when it wasn't even implemented into the Neo-Soul Keys, he just hyped it as a plugin that goes nicely with Neo-Soul for adding some colour.

don't wait for mods, use a blocker for unwanted images.

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2017

@aymat and @blaqmatic
I just came back to read this in the daytime. The tone of this thread seems to be turning sour. I can't speak for @GospelMusicians, but I encourage everyone to be patient. This is a new release. And, if they didn't care (Christian or not), there wouldn't have been any communication at all. Let's give them some time to understand this new issue. The offer of a refund may seem abrupt, but that could be the way customer service staff think is the only way to solve it for you. I know it's hard to go without communication, as I'm currently waiting for a company I want to support to respond to me.

Maschine is not a DAW - Native Instruments' own words here. They don't intend for it to be. So, I imagine it's possible that Maschine was not tested as thoroughly as actual DAWs, if it was even tested. I won't crucify them for that. They have a history, and it's with paying customers like you. I don't share all of your views, but I don't discount them. I'm just asking for us all to remain patient, positive and solution-oriented.

 

Right on. This isn't a huge issue, anyway. It's just a bug that has to be fixed. Everyone wants some communication, and they/we deserve it. I'm sure it's coming. But, as this is the flagship of Gospel Musicians, we can rest assured that they aren't giving up. There is no way they'll just let this flop and not take care of their paying customer base. Their products are already great and will continue to be.

 

Ive already noted that issues with software are normal and completely understandable. I'm well aware of that. But that's not what I have a problem with. It's how they chose to handle the situation.

I supported a company by purchasing a plugin that did not function as advertised. I made them aware of the issue, even offered to assist in finding a solution, and was told by their support staff that I had "a gift for breaking software"... not "Thank you for bringing this to our attention and we apologize for the issues you're experiencing with our plugin. We appreciate your suggestions and would be happy to work with you in order to help resolve the problem". I was given a refund I didn't ask for simply because I was asking for help. @blaqmatic said it best: "offering a surrender of obligation through refund, is offensive and reprehensible".

That still doesn't make it right or acceptable. Case in point, try replacing the word "software" with something else... Imagine if you bought a new car, took it home to find out something didn't work, brought it back to the dealership only to have the guy who sold it to you say "You have a gift for breaking cars where no one else can break them. It’s a gift, believe it or not". How would that make you feel? Do you consider that acceptable?

I think its important to understand that if you choose to let companies treat you in this manner, they will continue to do so, and this benefits no one. I don't stand idly and accept things as they are. I choose to be proactive by making others aware of the problem and will work toward finding solutions.

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2017

I agree completely. As I've already said before, Ive never had a problem with Gospel Musicians until now. Ive been very happy with the software Ive purchased from them in the past and have written some very good things about them. I understand these sort of thing happen and I hope in the future they chose to improve the way they work and communicate with their customers.

 

I didn't say it would be a decent thing to do. But still, they could do it. People do indecent things well-aware it's not "right and acceptable", but hey, does any of them care to begin with, that is the question.

was "Neo-Soul Keys Studio" product at any point advertised to be working, fully or partially, with Native Instruments product "Machine"? I'd like to see that advertisement please.

In fact, I've complicated things in my previous comment. It could be simpler. They could just say: "Hey, not for once during our marketing campaign did we say or gave any warranty for a Neo-Soul Keys Studio to work with Native Instruments Machine, which is completely different product by a different company, so we won't hold accountable for any issues you might be experiencing within that particular context". Does it work "as is" though? Does the product work by itself? Does the Standalone work? Does VST/AAX load in your DAW, does it play? I've checked KVR and Gearslutz pages, I see Youtube reviews, I don't really hear people panicking and raising alarms. I guess, that is why that staff member asked you to not create unnecessary panic by giving negative reviews and putting people off the product and the company, because whatever it is that doesn't work in your context, might as well work just fine in different environment.

I really don't think they've handled you bad, a couple of their answers were off, but to me, that guy Brian didn't seem to ignore you, in fact, he said they are working on it, trying to recreate the issue, and promised to keep you posted on the progress. what else he could do? he honestly told you they don't have the slightest idea what it is that may be causing it. if you expected them to fix your issue in just 5 days, well, maybe you had your hopes too high. only after you demanded answers he could not give you for whatever reason and your threat to turn to public forums, going around telling people the product doesn't work, which is, to put it mildly, a generalization and overstatement, and that the company's staff was rough to you, which also may not be exactly true, he chose to give an unhappy customer a refund. at that exact point he could not do more for you. maybe you should have waited for them to fix it, after all.

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2017

First I would like to say that I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience. I'll keep answers short.

As someone stated before, Machine is not on our list of supported DAWs, so we ddin't falsy advertise anything: http://gospelmusicians.com/neo-soul-keys-studio.html#product-details-tab-specification. Machine is it's own animal altogether, this is why it is not on the supported DAW list.

Once again we are sincerely sorry and offer refunds to anyone who is not satisfied.

 

Last edited: Mar 14, 2017

aymat You see?

 

i see unanswered questions . and 2 times edited , ive read it before it was edited also .

 

Jamal was probably too quick giving announcements about the upcoming fixes and Brian told him to back off Just my theory. No pressure.

 

i dont think he was to quick , anyway i expected it that gospelmusicians dont answere to all those question .