need to lower 2LUFS to reach target / Lower volume of all tracks Vs lower threshold on maximizer

Discussion in 'Working with Sound' started by petrrr, Sep 23, 2022.

  1. petrrr

    petrrr Kapellmeister

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    hi i need to lower all project own by 2LUFS

    i have two options

    1) Lower volume of all tracks

    2) lower threshold on maximizer

    whats the benefit of each which one u recommend?

    thanks
     
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  3. BEAT16

    BEAT16 Audiosexual

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    Hi, I would lower the overall volume. So lower Main Out.
    This way the sound you made will be preserved. It is then just a little quieter.
     
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  4. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Doesn't matter, same result, apart from the fact that you need to raise the maximizer's threshold to lower the LUFS (higher threshold -> less maximizing -> lower LUFS = song has less loudness - remember these values are negative, if you mix that up, you're causing confusion!).
     
  5. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

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    Just a side note:
    You do not lower the level by 2 LUFS, but by 2 LU.

    That's it, from my side.
    Keep going!
     
  6. mk_96

    mk_96 Rock Star

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    That's like saying you don't lower by 2dBFS, you lo lower by 2dB

    In this context is the same, since the readings are (probably) in full scale values.
     
  7. clone

    clone Audiosexual

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    Just a Side Note: You should be using EQ,Compression, and Limiting correctly. Forget the "Maximizer"plugin like Waves Ultra-whatever. A maximizer is going to do nothing but function like your crutch. Anyone can make something loud. You should be worrying about your Workflow, to see why you need such a plugin in the first place. All that will happen with the Maximizer, is just creating and reinforcing bad work habits/workflow.
     
  8. petrrr

    petrrr Kapellmeister

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    is there any tutorial you are aware of that explains this process u are referring to well?

    thanks!
     
  9. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

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    Um... sry, but no.
    Both -x dBFS and -x LUFS are absolute values that refer to full scale.
    You can't lower or raise the level by x dbFS or x LUFS, because raising and lowering is based on a relative value.
     
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  10. lxfsn

    lxfsn Producer

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    Yep, this guy ^^^ has all the points. op never said he's reaching the 0dBFS ceiling. actually knowing his posts so far, he could be crushing the hell out of the mix and the master is too loud without the maximizer doing actual limiting - hence this unreal issue.
     
  11. petrrr

    petrrr Kapellmeister

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    actually i think this is correct

    i'm a bit confused

    when you say i might be crushing the hell out of the mix what u mean?

    because you go on saying "without the maximizer doing actual limiting"

    i thought those 2 go hand in hand

    is there any tutorial that explains this specific stage i am trying to figure out whats the best way to do it
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  12. mentalpark

    mentalpark Newbie

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    It may be a bit controversial but the CTZ series by Baphometrix is good for this. Even if you don't follow all of their practices you will learn a lot about getting loudness in the mix and all of the other aspects that clone mentioned. It'll take you a while to get through it, especially if you're fairly new to these concepts (as I was) but hang in there, it is worth it. It also specifically goes into your original question down the line and much more.

    Here it is:
     
  13. RobertoCavally

    RobertoCavally Platinum Record

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    If we're talking LUFS integrated to conform to some specs (streaming etc..) there is a 3rd option:
    ...
    3) Change arrangement (make space, discard..)

    Just saying.. IMHO ppl don't use this enough
     
  14. lxfsn

    lxfsn Producer

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    "This specific stage you're at" is no stage. If you want to make music, make music. Put a limiter on the master, watch it limit just 1 dB from time to time (not more than 1dB of gain reduction!) and that's it. Whatever doesn't sound good during the production, go back to the mix and address the problem. The master bus processing can only help with polishing the last 5% of the quality of the mix. But if you nail the other 95% perfectly, you sound already "radio-ready".

    The biggest problem with you is that you don't seem to have musical taste and you do nothing to improve it (which is making at least a couple of hundreds of songs). I can clearly see it from your questions here. You have zero experience. You always base your decisions on numbers, you always ask about numbers but music is not about numbers. Imagine a wannabe painter trying to learn how to paint just by using color codes, ISO levels, and whatever units are in graphics to characterize the colors. It's insane!

    Whatever you measure on any of your favorite songs, that value is just because the producer LIKED how that bass sounds at -10 dB. For them is -10 is not a target, is the result of a process, to get the sound as they LIKE. In the next song it will be -11, in the next -6 etc.

    It's all about musical taste. The taste decides the resulting number, not the other way around. You're like a cook that wants to make a dish and puts 100g of ingredient A, 109g of ingredient B, 234g of ingredient C etc., without ever thinking to actually TASTE that food and decide for itself if is good or not.

    So what you have to do is stop watching tutorials and do the work. Listen to your own mix and adjust it until it sounds good. When you're done (done = whatever yo do, the mix still sucks even if you work on it for 2 weeks) that's you current ability. Is fine. Export it and move on. By the 100th if you compare 1 and 100 you're going to be amazed. If you compare 1 and 200 you're going to be blown away.

    As you do more songs, the more ideas you will have for new songs so don't worry you will never run out of ideas. You will always be able to re-work, re-mix old songs into fresh mixes, when you will have more experience. Or you will simply use old ideas in new songs. All these, no tutorials will show you, experience can't be quantified in any way, only you can make your music.

    Come back when you reach 100. This is my last ever answer to you. You don't need more knowledge, you only need practice. Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
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  15. nctechno

    nctechno Kapellmeister

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    i suppose you mean raise threshold on maximizer

    anyways, 1) and 2) are essentially the same thing meaning it does not matter
     
  16. nctechno

    nctechno Kapellmeister

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    you should know that LU (Loudness Units) which are dB (Decibel) are NEVER absolute, thats the whole point of dB lol

    you rather can't lower the level by x dB because there is no meaning behind it until you name a reference

    absolute would be voltage in V or SPL in PSI or bar or something
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
  17. luminosity

    luminosity Ultrasonic

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    I would add some more dynamic to the track. The result is better then just turning down volume or threshold from your limiter/maximizer.
    So First check each Track Volume.
    Add a multibandcompressor to the master and change the dynamic of each band.
    The limiter/maximizer should only catch the peaks of your track not more. That should help.
     
  18. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    There is no loudness target.

    Streaming platforms will lower the volume to reach THEIR loudness reference/target. If you want to lower LUFS (for whatever reason) you turn the volume/gain down, just like streaming platforms do.
     
  19. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

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    Yes, the unit decibel is relative. That's exactly what I said.
    Just like the unit LU, which corresponds to dB, but is used when we talk about loudness according to R 128, to avoid misunderstandings.

    BUT the unit dBFS means "decibel relative to full scale". Full Scale, the digital full scale limit, is absolute! That means dBFS is absolute. Whatever level value is in front of the unit dBFS is absolute, because it is relative to an absolute value.
    -9dBFS is always 0dBFS-9dB.

    You cannot lower the level by -9dBFS, you can only lower the level to -9dBFS.
    But you can lower the level by 9dB from 0dBFS to -9dBFS.

    Something similar is true for LUFS and LU.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2022
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  20. nctechno

    nctechno Kapellmeister

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    the unit is relative, the scale is absolute in this case
     
  21. daniolmu

    daniolmu Newbie

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    This way the sound you made will be preserved. It is then just a little quieter.
     
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