Need advice for gig setup

Discussion in 'Soundgear' started by NicoDPS, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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    Hello all,
    I'm seeking advice to upgrade my gig setup, first some information:
    We are two in the band, my mate sings and plays guitar and I (try to) sing and play computer with ableton live.
    Atm I've a little presonus interface (audiobox Itwo) which is connected to the patchbay and then to the mixing desk, the guitar and our vices follow the same path (all connections are XLR).
    Our sound engineer aked me if it was possible for me to have multiple output so he can adjust (volume and effects) separately rather than having all my stuff (beat, synth, bass,...) on only one stereo track.
    I presume that I should buy a new interface, but I wonder if it's possible to use, let's say one rme babyface pro, and use the (12) digital channels as separate tracks, how can I connect it to the patchbay?
    Is there some kind of adapter or I'll be forced to buy an interface with several analog output?
    Or should I look for a patchbay which accept digital connections?

    EDIT:
    I forgot to mention that I want that my voice pass trought the interface so I can "play" with it in real time, that's why I'm looking for a RME interface to avoid latency, with my little presonus latency is a problem...
     
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  3. boomoperator

    boomoperator Kapellmeister

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    I guess you're right, you need an interface with more outputs. Babyface Pro only connects it's 12 outputs through ADAT, so in that case you'll need an extra device.
    -Ask your techguy what kind of mixing desk/patchbay he uses, is it only analog, or maybe MADI, AES31..
    -What kind of 'playing' do you mean? Latency is also a byproduct of your computer speed, what computer do you use?
     
  4. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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    Thanks for the answer! :wink:
    The patchbay is a black box with only XLR connection, I don't know the brand, about the mixing desk I didn't pay much attention but I'll ask him.
    Can you tell me more about this extra device or it depends of the mixing desk?
    My laptop is a Core I-4710MQ with 16 gb RAM and a SSD. "Playing" means use effects on my voice (mostly Live's stock or soundtoys effects) and tweaking them in real time (or via "dummy clip" and automations).
     
  5. realitybytez

    realitybytez Platinum Record

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  6. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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    Thanks for your answer! ;)

    Did you try this interface yourself?
     
  7. Nimbuss

    Nimbuss Platinum Record

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    I've tried a few gigs running my audio through my DAW first and then into the mixing desk, I use the M-Audio 8-Track, not the best or traditional method but it is fun using digital plugins in real time and you have much more control when EQ'ing etc.. Only downside is PC's can shut off pretty quickly and the time it takes to reboot is scary long when people are staring at the audio booth :hahaha:

    Routing: Mic's --(Via snake)> M-Audio Inputs -> DAW Mixer -> M-Audio Output -> Mixer inputs -> Output to Amps and PA system.

    A bit off topic but these things are possible and it opens a lot more options to create a better sounding set eg: using the Waves H-Delay to tap the delay in

    [​IMG]

    Peace
     
  8. boomoperator

    boomoperator Kapellmeister

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    Playing around with your voice going into plugs on a computer easy introduces extra latency, I don't think by keeping it digital you could eliminate that. Maybe it's an idea to look for a hardware solution for playing?

    The ADAT protocol is an 8 channel digital i/o. To my knowledge, in livesound there's not much use of it, you would have to convert it anyhow. Then MADI comes to mind, which is used by larger venues & PA companies. Benefits are audio-quality, no analog interference, more simple cable plans.
     
  9. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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    That's exactly what I wanna do. ;)

    That's why I was thinking about a RME interface and using Live's stock plug-in, for having the less possible latency.
    I prefer keeps everything in the box, of course, if it's not possible I could chage my mind...

    Unfortunatly, the mixing desk is analog only, no MADI or AES... :/
    What piece of gear do I need to convert the signal?
    Something like that?
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/141

    Or that:
    https://www.thomann.de/be/behringer_ada_8200_ultragain.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2016
  10. Nimbuss

    Nimbuss Platinum Record

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    Latency definitely is the issue, keep on the lookout for 0 latency VST's though i got away with a 128 Buffer size and extra plugins which added to a total of 7ms-9ms (can't remember exactly) and the stage singers seemed okay with it.

    Only concern is to make sure your audio doesn't glitch due to CPU issues etc, i'm not a wizz at buffer lengths but trial and error on rehearsal days got me the best possible session.

    Viva digital
    I interned for a TV show years ago and the head audio mixer was sent stage audio from a huge splitter which wen't into his Mac via a Allen & Heath IDR, everything was well until he added a Lookahead limiter and people were live tweeting how " the sound wasn't looking right " ahh scary times.
     
  11. spacetime

    spacetime Platinum Record

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    Motus are small and portable and all the newer ones have a build in mixer software which can be accessed through any browser connected to the same network. Some have additional effects

    Also cheaper then RME
     
  12. realitybytez

    realitybytez Platinum Record

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    the average person isn't going to notice anything less than 20ms. and in a typical band of 4 players, the musicians are likely to be at least 10ms apart during a performance. if you are listening with a critical ear without any distraction, sure you can hear 5ms of delay (maybe even less), but in a live venue with sound reflecting off hard surfaces, nobody is going to notice a 20ms latency. my humble opinion of course.
     
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  13. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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    I fully agree with you, but my mate will hear it, he's very sensitive about latency and it distracts him... a lot... ^^
     
  14. boomoperator

    boomoperator Kapellmeister

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    If your FOH is analog only, I wouldn't invest in a digital solution. Also because there's still latency at the source. I agree that 20 Ms of latency should be doable in a live situation. Compensate other sources with a delay is an option, but I don't know if you wanna go that far..
    Hardware solutions for voiceprocessing, take a look at the 4 TC Helicon Voice boxes, they're very affordable and can be controlled from their dynamic microphone or a footswitch: But I don't know what kind of effect you're looking for; here's more: https://www.thomann.de/be/voice_processor.html?pg=2
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016
  15. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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  16. boomoperator

    boomoperator Kapellmeister

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    Again, from a latency pov there's no need to go ADAT, why not invest in another interface with multiple outputs?
    The Behringer: if you go from ADAT to line level, the pre-amps are not used (in fact should not, it depend on the electrical design).
     
  17. NicoDPS

    NicoDPS Producer

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    I don't want/can't afford to buy an interface only for gig, and so if I must buy a new one I prefer put some money to have a good onen but I don't have enough money to buy a very good one with a lot of output... :dunno:


    That's why I wrote that I don't really care about the preamp quality, because I wont use them, I'll only use the D/A converter. :winker:
     
  18. GangamStyle

    GangamStyle Ultrasonic

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    Also, depending on the size of the venue, expect the mix to end up in mono!
     
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