Can someone explain me why this fuss has been created between

natural minor piano scales, harmonic minor piano scales, and melodic minor piano scales

I assume natural is the aeolian mode

so the other two are not even in the "modes"

how did this fuss came to be?

Thanks

 

Those scales represent a series of historical steps that were taken to accommodate the Second Pratica, which later would be known as tonality. The harmonic minor scale specifically addresses harmonic requirements in tonal music (the leading tone), while the melodic minor scale emerged as a practical solution to melodic awkwardness when it comes to voicing.

They are not separate things; it's all part of the minor key. Tonality emerged from modal music, but it isn't modal; keys aren't modes, even though they can be taught through modes and understood to some extent through a modal framework. The reason this subject can quickly turn into confusion or 'fuss' is that people don't realize what tonality is all about and have little historical knowledge.

 

Last edited: Apr 11, 2025 at 10:04 AM

You have an enquiring mind that will eventually reap rewards for your chosen profession, keep probing...


This is an extract from a knowledge base I'm compiling for my website.


All the so-called modes just variations of the Major or Minor mode, er scale?

All you need to write music is an instrument, period.

In fact, you don’t even need to play an instrument cos you can place notes on a grid, they're both just different tools for the same job.

Merely by listening to music constantly since a youth, means we’ve all been permeated with the structure and harmony of a song/tune, all the info you need to write harmonically sound music is in you, this imbued knowledge that you already possess just needs to be tapped.


Let’s tap into it and see if releases da floodgates for you.

When you begin to play or ‘place’ notes on a grid, it’s crucial to know the defining difference between a Major und a Minor scale, for now, just concern yourself with the third/3rd note of any Major scale, in this case, C major, that 3rd note would be an E. We just need to shift that Major scale E note down a semitone to Eb, that's the first black note to the left of it. That's it.

We are now fully aware that the main key defining difference between any Major or any Minor key is the 3rd, it must be flattened/lowered.

The Major 3rd, of any Major key, must be flattened by a semitone to define a Minor key.

The C Major scale is C D E F G A B C or I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 or Ist 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th they all represent the same thing.


The C Minor scale is C D Eb F G A B C or I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 or Ist 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th the only difference being the E is changed to an Eb. That’s it.

As you see, when the E is swapped for an Eb, miraculously, C Major immediately becomes C Minor, phew, dat was easy eh.

So, to create minor scale the 3 (or 3rd) note of any Major scale must be flattened by a semitone and it’s this simple note flattening or note swapping that brings a very different flavour/colour to the scale, er mode?

This is the same for every Major scale, flatten the 3 note, or in this case, "3rd" would be the 'proper' term, but both are one and same thing, don't let the terminology hamper your progress, words can get in the way when attempting to describe the aesthetic intricacies of harmonic movement, but your ears will reveal everything you need to know as you progress. Patience is the, er, key.

You should always refer to a scale in this manner as it will guide & enable you to achieve a complete und thorough understanding of harmonic movement. The bulk of that knowledge will arrive almost immediately because harmony is incredibility easy to grasp, it’s pretty straightforward stuff, any fool could master it without raising sweat, otherwise this ol' fool couldn’t do it. Er, did sweat a bit though.

And don't fret, it only gets harder, only joshing, it's as easy as ABC.

 

Essentially yes, the word is just used in a different context.

Harmonic is natural minor with a raised 7th, and it's that way because when approaching the tonic and you want the strong tension-resolution effect that happens when going from 7th to tonic, in a natural minor scale this effect is not very strong, so what people did was raise the 7th and now you have a better tension and release.

Initially this "raising the 7th" thing was used only in parts when you needed that strong resolution (like cadences), then you switch back to natural minor, that's not always the case, but that's the gist of it.

Now, this raised 7th does sound different than natural minor obviously, and depending on how the notes go it can sound a little disonant, so then people figured out that you could smoothe that disonance by raising the 6th as well, depending on the movement of the notes. That melodic minor.

So in short, these were initially alterations of natural minor used on specific situations.

That's as far as i know anyway.

 

@Staee
I would not say it is so much 'a fuss' made over it rather than in their simplest explanation, they just sound different to each other.
Using your descriptions with A minor
Natural - A,B,C,D,E,F,G,A
Harmonic minor - A,B,C,D,E,F,G#,A
Melodic minor - A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#,A

In jazz improvising, modes are used regularly for chord-to-scale relationships, and in larger jazz ensemble composition, more for wishing to extend/identify, and/or expand the harmony where the upper extensions might not be immediately evident or present, by associating, or applying the chordal/scale movement with/in the harmony.

 

Last edited: Apr 11, 2025 at 12:31 PM

Exactly, brilliant, but i have problems remembering all the different names for basically the same thing and what you say here also relates to wether you're going up or down a scale, i also don't get or need this cycle of 5ths nonsense, too many labels can confuse what is basically simple to understand, and labels tell you nowt, I'm only interested in the function of tones and chords and your ears can tell you all you need to know, if its sounds wrong, it is wrong, try another note, it's really that simple, period.

Of course you do need to know certain correct terminology, interval, voice-leading, scale, etc but that's easy to absorb, but i can't name any modes??? i just use them anyway and early on i made my own up, just the the black notes starting with C#Db, limiting but it works ok. Starting with the last black note A#/Bb and playing in reverse will give you the more familiar pentatonic scale, used in folk a lot.

For me it's about the aesthetic, playing writing, not reading study, i learnt on the job using only my ears as a guide, nothing stopping any of you, you're already primed, let some steam off, you might surprise your bad self.