I finished a track today and I notice how I'm slowly going nuts over my workflow. So often when I listen to my track within my DAW (mostly Studio One) and make mixing and also musical decisions, in the end I am satisfied with it, but when I render the audio and listen to it in my music player (foobar2000), I suddenly notice all these little things that I didn't notice within the DAW. It's as if playing back the rendered audio in my audio player makes it sound different. So what I then do is, I open my DAW again and act on the feedback that I get from the audio player, and then render it out again. In order to listen to it, I close the DAW so my audio device gets released. Then I have to open it again and go through a minute of plugins loading. And so on and so forth. It's super tedious and also going on my nerves.

And then, when I'm finally happy with a version, I suddenly notice another tiny little thing. I then say to myself "alright I'll fix this one thing then it's finished", then while fixing this thing I go through several revisions, and then when it's fixed, I notice another "just one more tiny little thing". It never ends.

This is at least partially mental I suppose, but I just don't know why I would have a different opinion on my rendered audio just because I leave my DAW. (I take into account plugins like Sonarworks etc. that change the sound - currently don't use them anyway).

 

You said it right learn when to just leave it be and go to the next one. Merry Christmas

 

It helps me to have pen & paper handy and make a detailed list of every little thing to fix. Then, when I go back to the DAW, I can quicky begin fixing issues. This also helps because usually 2 or 3 issues affect each other, or a couple of problems on the list lead to a completely different solution I would otherwise not had thought of.

Side note (different subject) - also try this: next time you begin recording and producing or, starting your mix session, mix into the 2-buss compressor from the beginning, instead of slapping the comp on the 2-buss right before you render your track like many people seem to do. Tickle the GR at max 2 db.

**edit** Merry Christmas!!!

 

Thank you. I am not sure I can leave a project "behind" when I know there are still things that I could make better. Seems like this is something that every producer has to do sooner or later.

I never considered mixing into a buss compressor. What's the point of that anyway? Is it to get "glue", what I always hear when people talk about buss compressors?
Good idea regarding a written list. I'll do that. Still doesn't prevent me from hearing issues in a player software that I didn't hear in the DAW though -.-

Merry Christmas to you too!

 

Buss comp is for a slight glue effect, tames dynamics a bit. The SSL varients are the most usual candidates.

If you're not using a buss comp that's fine. As far as hearing artifacts in your rendered mix vs. in your DAW, that's an entirely different problem...

Try disabling ALL of your effect plugins in your DAW. Don't mess with volume or panning, and render that to a file. See if the RAW file plays back to what you're hearing in your DAW. It could be a plugin compatibility issue, make sure your sample rates match everywhere, check your panning laws, bounce down the file to match your DAWs bit rate and sample rate at HIGHEST quality possible in the DAW; try another player other than FOOBAR - try RESONIC instead and make sure that RESONIC is playing back using the same ASIO driver that your DAW was using (not MME, WASAPI, etc...), disable PC MOBO sound functions in device manager.

So, strip everything down, and check the above things to see if you can get closer narrowing down the problem.

https://resonic.at/download

 

Last edited: Dec 25, 2020

Why don't you use a different set of monitor speakers while programming(a friend's maybe...just to make sure that you can hear the desired frequencies on your existing set)Could be your existing speakers are the problem?Maybe a set of Genelec's or NS 10's or similar.No harm in trying.

 

quite simple... you are working ... try some Funflow

 

its part of progress. checking your mix on more speakers while you mix eliminates a lot of issues. having good monitor speakers with good bass response and hi resolution headphones make it faster and easier.

 

@waverider Try to set a deadline to finish a project. What you are describing is a very common situation with the advent of the DAW. Nowadays, is just very easy to make changes to what we have already done. It is the never ending story. One way to get over that bump is to join different song and mixing contests, that will force you to finish a project without continuing to double guess what you have done.

 

I've never mixed into a buss compressor, I'll try it in my next project. I can see how that would be helpful, let's see if I can get it right.

I'm not talking about hearing artifacts or glitches, it's just that I suddenly notice things that bother me. Hats are too quiet, the bass is not clear enough, a note starts too early etc., and these things were not that obvious in the DAW. That's what I find surprising.

I am using Sennheiser headphones, I'll try to use Sonarworks more often, that should hopefully help.

Also good idea regarding a different playback software. Didn't even consider that could be a problem. Sometimes I would also listen in a video player like Zoom Player or VLC, and I would notice even more things there.

Should I just limit myself to what I hear in the DAW? Perhaps that would be a good idea.

On the other hand, when I compare my current version to the one I had two days ago (about 40 revisions ago lol), it sounds so much better. So I suppose it must probably help somewhat at least.

But yeah I should also set limits or deadlines. I suppose I can learn more things if I just produce more tracks.

Happy Holidays again!

 

Being tedious in the beginning is what will make you get better.
The problem could be in the music player it might have a different eq setting on etc.
Re import the exported audio file back into your project to A/B if they sound the same.
Also try and use a different audio output setting in your daw that way will save you time from closing the daw and re opening it to check all the time.
They done about 50 mixes of Michael Jackson's Billy Jean but then they ended up using the 2nd mix they done so even pros over work things.
Sounds like you are at the entrance of the rabbit hole, have fun.

 

@Jim Von Gucci
Very good ideas, will keep that in mind.
And thank you for that Michael Jackson story, that's actually encouraging.
Merry Christmas!

 

Common misinterpretation. You don't need to render your track, you need a short break.
There're so many things going on in a track, that it's absolutely impossible for human hearing to focus on all of them. In fact you hardly can focus on three sounds at a time (try with drums, listen exactly what the BD, Sn and HH are doing). That's why you're missing all the other things. After a short break you'll listen to different things.

 

It was almost twice that amount. According to Bruce Swedien, there were was 91 mixes of it. Totally unnecessary as proven by the fact that they choose number 2. Nice way for the engineer to fill his pockets and something that only an artist of the statute of MJ can demand and be able to afford. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/q-a-with-bruce-swedien/84587-real-story-quot-billie-jean-quot.html

 

Yes, but probably all 91 sounded great anyway.

 

Is your mix at a point where you would send it out to a client, producer, mastering, etc...?

Even under the best conditions & environment, you, will hear something that catches your attention. A song you've heard 50 times may suddenly sound different because of what you are focusing on. A reverb tail that you never paid much attention to. A chord stack or inversion. How a clean bass just sits in the mix.

As already mentioned. A mix bus compressor can help keep the stereo image uniformly cohesive.

With Studio One, be careful using the included plugins. Some are good, some are not. the ones I avoid:
Channel Strip Collection
CTC-1
Fat Channel
Built-in console emulation

 

i usually mix at -6 into a limiter on my masterbuss to hear how it sounds when its loud
i switch the limter on and off so now and then after that i use waves wlm meter for the lufs

 

@No Avenger
Thank you, that is next level, I didn't even consider this. It does take several minutes for the file to render, and during that time there is usually silence and I don't listen to anything else. Hmmm. I should just take more breaks then.

@quadcore64
I don't feel like it's at such a point yet, there are too many things that still bother me and that I don't know how to fix yet. I didn't watch too many mixing tutorials yet though. I suppose once I do that, everything's gonna become a lot clearer to me. I'll try mixing into a mix buss compressor in my next track, thank you.

The Michael Jackson mix story is so funny, are these mixes all available somewhere? I wonder if someone could actually spot the differences between the many different versions.

 

what OS and driver type are you using that you have to close your DAW in order to listen to a file in a different program? audio drivers being locked is so 2009