@MMJ2017 .. composing a song that touches the heart of millions of people has absolutely nothing to do with understanding theory or success in the industry of music, has nothing to do with what one needs to know in order to successfully perform brain surgery or build a skyscraper that doesn't fall down in a stiff wind. Adrienne West's Version of Imagine is NOT a new song and Beethoven's melodies were not contrived or intellectualized.

 

...and...just because.

 

I get what your trying to say, and respect and like you yourself but lets investigate that
https://www.therichest.com/rich-list/the-biggest/12-highest-earning-songs-of-all-time/
http://www.pajiba.com/seriously_random_lists/the-10-richest-songs-of-all-time.php
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture...chest-Songs-in-the-World-BBC-Four-review.html
look at the richest songs in history and evaluate each song foundation how it was written.
I don't see any songs ignorant of how music works they couldn't have accidentally had their ignorance of music give results that knowledge of music gives.
a song written with no knowledge of theory compared to one with the knowledge of theory is just like comparing a house built by someone with no experience or knowledge compared to a highly trained carpenter. etc.
its a fact about reality ignorance= misunderstanding knowledge = power

so let me ask you this for this to be true SOMETIMES (in the real word) ignorance= power and knowledge=misunderstanding for you to be right is that what we see in the richest songs in the world history? no these are well thought out songs that have a foundation in the way music really works, (easy to find songs built from ignorance dime dozen to compare to)
this is what music theory has to do with brain surgery and construction and science and historians



knowledge =power
ignorance=leads to misunderstanding, poor results


you need to demonstrate an example of total music ignorance yielding the type of results that music knowledge yields. trust me, i would rather not spend all these years studying music theory like I have , I wrote 10 of my own albums and made 100 of other peoples before i even attempted to study music theory, NOW the place I am at I can write in 5 mins what took me 3 months to write back then all those years ago. the results are demonstrable in every case.

i'm more concerned about what is actual not terminology or semantics
also I am concerned about what Adrienne West's Version of Imagine is, rather than what it isn't.

I don't know what to say other than Beethoven was taught how music works. There is no mystery there. No single note out of place. Beethoven is as square as you can get( diatonic) no alterations, nothing but pure theory not a single grace note.( yet still fantastic) his work is pure music theory his childhood on ,he studied with the best around .it is a fact .You or I can demonstrate in his music itself, and in the historical artifacts and canon left behind.

 

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I can make it in just 2 minutes, so what?

Would you please share just one of them? The one you really like. The most harmonious one. Please..........

Don't worry we the illiterate won't judge you.

 

to anyone, a challenge

give 1 example in human history where

Ignorance = art.

 

If this is freedom, I want to be sent to Guantanamo camp.

 

Mine. Deep ignorance.

 

Musical sensations have been deeply ingrained naturally into the humans' subconscious minds. No theory can discover them but the humans themselves and totally unconsciously.

Now you show me 1 example that I can fall in love with it and prove that it's beautiful because it has followed the theory.

Theories can only fix small range of problems during the composition, that's it, though humans are more capable than them. Theories can not make composition for you.

 

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Most schools that do teach music- do NOT teach music the way MMJ does.
They would have students coming out that would be completely discombobulated if they did and this includes Berklee, Juliard, New England, Miami State and North Texas - five of the best known.

You are not ignorant, you only do not know as much as you want to.

Get a teacher or better still a book from the audioz site and teach yourself because I know people that have that are great..
MMJ could not answer a simple chord harmony question that my lowest 1st year Bachelor students could at 18-19 years of age which is that what I posted was only three chords that have been substituted. By MMJ saying it is not harmony would mean he would be treated as a moron far worse than anyone has here in any of those schools far worse.
What he is posting changes if the melody does which he missed and was pointed out by three people. What can be played and used in real life composition and performance is how it is taught.
Fundamentals are not even taught the way he does and fundamentals are pre-degree teaching.

 

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@foster911
A good teacher will pull music out that you know or have heard of. Play it to you then say in English something like:
"In this section coming into Bar#....you can see how this does...."
or
"I will play this for you....does anyone know what is happening with the harmony here?......"
or
if a pop song or jazz or any style other than classical because it is still mainly all done with bar numbers..
"As it comes into the bridge, the composer does this.... as you can see on the board he uses....now I will play it for you slowly so you can take it in..."

People teach for one purpose only which is to aid understanding, not to confuse.

Many books give you audio and theory in the same method so you can hear it and see it at the same time so you understand it. This is common practice. The way MMJ does it is closer to teaching someone Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics and nobody that is not a seasoned musician can tell whether it is the right way to do it or not. Go to any reputable school, I guarantee they will not show you the way he has and that is a guarantee.

 

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if foster likes it...i know its crap

 

Fully agree. Singing an intricate melody and putting lyrics to it requires no knowledge of theory.

Knowing that many famous songs have been created with I - IV - V -iv chords doesn't mean understanding.

Classic Bill Evans interview. Okay so it is discussing Jazz. Sorry foster.

Nonetheless listen from 37:13 through to around 39:00

Bill's Brother (Harry) quoting Bill - "I didn't want to deprive you of the pleasure."

 

The principles in all music are the same. It either works or it does not no matter whether theoretically correct or audibly, simple or complex.
If every musician that lived was concerned with staying in the rules we would be in the Dark Ages still and Mozart, Jimi Hendrix, Miles and a pile of other innovators would never have existed.
Music is one of two things, it is good or it isn't.

 

Everyone on this forum is a famous major producer and/or a musical prodigy.
As for myself, I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces etc., etc.

 

Great !! I heard some Gorilla's are terrorising some small villages in Nairobi. Can I give them your address?


My mistake, you meant guerilla. Duh me.

 

Nah, stet. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta
P.S. when correcting other people's spelling, it's best to check your own. Guerrilla.

 

You completely missed the humour and I should not be surprised, but the way you worded it looked like you went to war with Gorilla's. If there was no wink emoticon it would have been serious.

 

Nah, I laughed -- at your cultural illiteracy & your hilarious attempt to school me in spelling.
The latter was doubly lulzy: you couldn't spell

 

With a name like lambchop it's pretty hard to take you seriously or take the time to concern myself with typographical errors in a message that took three seconds to type, which any lateral thinking person would have grasped was typographical. But you are serious and nobody misses it either. However, I am not concerned with someone that actually chose to call themselves "lambchop". That is truly hilarious !!!!
I wasn't schooling you I laughed at the wording because I pictured fighting a pack of Gorilla's. But again you missed that.
I pity anyone that immediately takes the negative path, without trying to see that there might be some reason other than persecution.

Maybe when you take the piss out of people you might consider that people saw it that your statements were doing the same. I thought your use of "Gorilla" was intentional to take the piss. You missed that too.

 

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Challenge accepted and reduced to net bombast.