the secret is to use your ears, heart and mind, hands

 

Last edited: May 31, 2017

In that case, you can not complicate the composition. You know some people would enjoy making even slick but effective music, on the other hand some people would prefer to play with notes arduously to make elusive moments for the listeners by dusting off old rules for parlaying into their punishing music.

 

Funny, but there is only one tonic in C major and that's is C.
Modulation between tonalities is impossible without using detuned systems like 12et and so on is impossible - you will get pitch drifting and comma pumps in JI.
Depending on the tuning system you can find all kind of interesting observations, but it's naive to say that there is another tonic in the real JI C major.
1/1 - 9/8 - 5/4 - 4/3 -3/2 - 5/3 -15/8 -2/1.
It's sad that that the scale sounds better than what is available in 12et despite the grave fifth of 680 cents and the acute fourth of 520 c (D-A).
I know that many people make electronic music make electronic music. My advice is to retune the 3rds to from 400 c. to 386 c. There is a reason why minor scales are so popular in electronic music - major thirds sound like buzzing cheesy shit unlike the pure major thirds.
Of course, there are problems with modulation, but how many electronic tracks modulate?

 

yes i am only considering equal temperament A=440 in the context of that presented material of advanced music theory

just like the relationship of individual notes forming chords and chords forming progressions.

there is a relationship of keys in the same way and no not just major-minor keys all keys and alterations
like i explained the augmented scale and diminished scale is how the major-minor keys and others are related just like how notes for chords ,keys work the same way
afterall say C major key that is just a detailed version of the note C and Aflat key is just the detailed version of Aflat note. you can use more than one note in music.

 

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some people prefer to create music with very basic modal outlines and a couple notes in the song, other people prefer to create music using the entirety of the language of music ,with all available notes chords keys expressions.

that is the reality of the situation. many even choose which method based on the song they wish to write

 

Last edited: May 31, 2017

Chords are built on thirds. It doesn't sound any different. It is the same note, just the enharmonic spelling.

 

Imo, chord progressions are misnamed - they are not progression, they are cycles, because you aren't progressing to the next C (which is different from the one that you started with).
In 12et you generally can use any note as a tonic, because everything is distorted and you can freely modulate using different chords blurring the line between the tonalities and confusing the sense of finalis.
Some musical theory books are quite confusing (especially counterpoint), because some of the rules aren't really the same in 12et as in the historical tunings that were used in Europe centuries ago.
Something interesting that I found in 24et: The diatonic scale there is 442- 4- 442, in 12et it is 221 - 2 - 221. The middle 2/4 is the link between the tetrachords. If you subdivide the 442 4 442 even more, you can get a another version of the diatonic, but with more chords like Eb minor, E^ neutral, Db neutral, Gb major, Ab neutral, Bb subdim (idk, if this is a real name...), B ^ ??? - another chord that I don't know how to name and you play arabic modes over them.
The division is 22 22 11 22 22 22 11. Of course, there are many other variations of the diatonic and the other 12et scales there, but the interesting part is that you get Gb major and Eb minor in C major and the progression in the 14 notes major scale sounds smooth.
The question is - how many of the "chromatic" chords in the normal 12et progressions come from bigger divisions of the octave?

 

i find it all fascinating, mostly i deal with equal temperament though because of instruments i have but be cool to have microtonal instruments and such

remember though no matter what frequency per second is arbitrary , there is nothing magical about the second for example you can have 440 per second a note but if you change to 1.112 seconds the frequency changes, there is nothing about the second that is important we just base it off human auditory system

 

a-ha! Thanks! Where I can find more about it, and how I can use this knowledge in production using DAW?

 

its based on circle of fifths so you have this.

F# C# G# D# A# E# B#
F C G D A E B
F- C- G- D- A- E- B-

the - means flat so you have 7 sharps 7 natural and 7 flats

E# = F
B# = C

then

C- = B
F- = E








so the whole circle of fiths to cover all 12 notes goes from low to high

FCGDAEB F#C#G#D#A# ( now we can convert the shrps to flars) G- D- A - E- B-

that gives us 2 versions

F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A#
F C G D A E B G- D- A - E- B-

play this on piano roll or instrument when it gets to end it starts form beginning again.


next here is how to collect the notes in a major key

F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A#F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A#
F C G D A E B G- D- A - E- B-F C G D A E B G- D- A - E- B-

you start on a note, move one note left and grab the 7 notes to the right for example

key of C major is FCGDAEB notes in order CDEGFAB

key of D major one note to left G then 7 notes G,D,A,E,B,F#,C# now put in order
D major = D E F# G A B C#

how about F# major? B F# C# G# D# A# F

arranged in order F# G# A# B C# D# F





next here is how to collect all the notes in a minor key

F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A#F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A#
F C G D A E B G- D- A - E- B-F C G D A E B G- D- A - E- B-

you start on a note, move 2 notes to the right grab the 7 notes in order to the left for example

A minor = FCGDAEB then in proper order ABCDEFG

how about G# minor? start of G# move 2 notes to the right so A# D# G# C# F# B E
now arranged in proper order G# A# B C# D# E F#

 

Last edited: May 31, 2017

its based on circle of fifths to you have this.

F#C#G#D#A#E#B# F C G D A E B F-C-G-D-A-E-B the - means flat so you have 7 sharps 7 natural and 7 flats

E# = F
B# = C

then

C- = B
F- = E

 

what the heck? can MOD delete those duplicates and this comment please thank you.

 

Many popular vst synths and samplers can be retuned using .scl and .tun files and you can made your own with the free Scala software and download thousands of historical temperaments and tuning systems from their site.
I don't know much about the magical and mystical side of the music, but all these tuning schemes have symbolic/ occult explanations - and they have specific sound to them - ratios with 2 and 3 in them form the eastern simple and naturally sounding pentatonic scales popular in eastern Asia. Add 5 and you get the western and indian scales. 7 gives the african, blues, jazz scales and sounds. 11, 13, 17, 23 are used in the middle east, but mostly 11 and 13. 29 - in the gamelan and similar musical cultures in the region. 31 - used by the ancient greeks and romans (the enharmonic scales). Randomly combining different ratios doesn't give nice sounding scales.
Equally tempered scales are ok for keyboards and that's it.
Imo, ear training in 12et is a sin. You are basically distorting someone's natural recognition of balance. There are pro musicians that were exposed their whole life only to western music and to them 7/4, 11/8 or 13/8 will sound out of tune even if these intervals are more harmonical than some of these used in the west and come before them in the overtone series, but you have to listen to african or oriental music to learn to appreciate them.
I've always wondered in the past why some classical progressions sound like shit on my synths, but they are fine when played by the orchestras. You can't play classical music without retuning the keyboard. It's a parody. V - I sounds really bad. The thirds are out of tune. The seventh is super ugly to me for some reason in 12et. It's used melodically so much in the past, but check the baroque and classical temperaments - guess what - it's was way lower back then. In the current pop music it's more common to hear bVII than VII.

 

For pete's sake let's lay aside these amorphous, desultory, discursive, frivolous, garbled, superfluous, unaccountable, unavailing, etc. discussions and think about the music within this continuous spectrum space:



not discrete one like this, that classically trained guys have been taught:



It's really a big shame that the mentioned guys still qualify and characterize the spectrum with the terms such as timbre.

 

Yeah totally agree

 

equal temperament sounds great to me, especially when we use harmonic creating distortion devices to color the sound whether amps preamps outboard gear fx.

 

yes, i get your point( you have a preference to use by ear only) butt the thread is called music theory secrets

 

Who has said that the music should be explained and theorized by pre-specified discrete pitches? What do you define music?

 

You are confusing sound (which is any vibration our ears can perceive) with music (which indeed uses soundwaves to reach our ears but it also have certain characteristics related to rhythm, pitch, timbre, harmony).

Do the math below:

Dancing: probably defined as a certain form of human movement.
Running: also a form of movement of the body
- is running dancing? -

Poetry: Poetry uses words.
Dictionary: uses words.
- is dictionary a long poem?-

Music: reaches into our ears from sound waves
Flushing a toilet: also reaches into our ears from soundwaves
- is flushing a toilet music? -

If you're smart, the answer to all the questions above would be no and you'd understand that the sounds you like to create cannot be called music. They can be called noise from a musical perspective because that's what they are when compared side-by-side with music. Or, these noises can be small building blocks in a larger piece of music, noise have it's place in music, usually is called "FX".

You see, can't pretend that you make music, using just some decorative elements. It's like pretending you've built a house just by displaying a bath tub in a grass field, with no foundation, walls and roof and ask everyone to redefine the concept of a house because you hate walls and general organisation and precision that building a house asks for.

You can invent a new word to define these sounds as a totally new form of entertainment, though. However, trying to change the core definition of music is both pointless and impossible.

Food for thought: ignore the Hz and the musical notes and observe how the harmonics of a saw wave (which is a sum of an infinite number of sine waves) follow a very exact set of ratios between them. Now try to define a form of representation of these harmonics and see what you get

imgur.com/a/84Aw8

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2017

@MMJ2017
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