Dear Community,

I saw curious what you guys think of this.

I accidentally switched my sample rate to 192khz, I started to hear more details than previous 44.1 khz , and suddenly though about whether I should mix 192khz due to the more clarity, thinking that if I mix good at 192 khz (with every issues in my face to address), it will sound great in 44.1 khz vs. the other way around.

Really curious what you guys think?

Cheers.

 

If CPU was unlimited, I would mix in 96k.

Higher resolution mixing (by which I mainly mean using different analog-model gear) has its own issues that makes it necessary to periodically lowpass filter the output of any nonlinear processor with a special filter, which gives it kinda the best of both worlds fidelity: the niceness of high-res, and the lack or HF artifacts that 44.1k automatically gives you for free.

https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/tag/ultrasonic-filter/
Here's a free filter of this type & discussion about the intermodulation distortion issue in the HF of high res mixes. It's a subtle thing but nasty in that, it accumulates the more nonlinear processors you pile on.

Another consideration altogether might be archival. What if someone wants your mix in the year 2068, but by then everyone is listening in glorious 192k on their super iphone brain implants from the future. If you mix in 44k you're shit out of luck, you will be in the lo-fi genre. Even going up to 48k for archival makes a massive difference. In fact it's so pronounced that going to 96k from 48k doesn't really gain you all that much by comparison with that crucial 44k-48k jump...

 

Try it out, if it works for you then great.

You could experiment and build up to the sample rate you're comfortable with but in my experience and as @Satai already said it, there isn't much audible difference in quality between 48-96kHz and as you go above that and mix at higher sample rates such as the one mentioned (192kHz), that tends to eat up a lot more cpu as you go through the stage but if you have a pc that can take a beating of that magnitude then go for it.

I've settled with tracking and mixing at 48kHz which I found to be enough for my needs, a comfortable sweetspot.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2019

Is the OP talking about changing project settings for "mixing", after having recorded at a different rate?

Either way; agree with other comments above, regards recording at 48kHz being fine enough.

 

because you seriously think by 2068 people will be allowed to listen to the music they want, when they want ?...
just look at the 'social experiment' in china, where citizens can be good..average...bad...

The other say i was watching a documentary about the disco phenomenon in the Us. The virtnam war was over, people were finally happy, could breath and smoke and fuk, everybody just wanted peace and love, people were united, strong, happy, motivated... and little by little, the government did all they could to stop the movement. .to stop all those happy people. And so one day, the disco was officially 'over'.
governments don't want people united, strong, motivated and happy, where everybody is allowed to think, everybody can dream of a better life and future. No. They want people separated from each other, much easier to control and manipulate. 2 billion people are using facebook, meanwhile the society had never felt so separated, so distant, so alone. If you stay alone, don't hang out with friends, nothing is said, nothing is shared, nothing is created. .. we will live 45 years, doing out little day job, to make enough money to survive, pay taxes, pay for Internet and a smartphone. and we die. The perfect citizen.

By 2068, if music is still allowed to be created, governments will use music, not to entertain people, but to control them. Lyrics adapted to each citizen, to convince them to go there, do this, say that.

But nothing like that will happen, because, anyway,
it's just a matter of 1-5 years before
-big cow/pig/chicken/etc flu pops up, and meat will be scarce
-new virus, flu, etc or some strange evolved virus that mutates with each new drug could quickly infect the whole planet
- flood everywhere , food becomes ultra scarce and expensive (for more info, ask venezuela)
- huge stock market crash, worst then 1930
- dollar currency no longer exists, global crisis
- wars and conflict everywhere
-more unknown shit to come

It will be very very hard, to reach 2030 without a big.. biiiiiiig thing happening. 2068....


am i optimistic? Of course i am !

 

My i7 6 cores computer can't handle projects in 96K,with approximately30 midi tracks,30 audio tracks,8 FX tracks and dozens plugins.So I don't try in 192K.
But I've noticed more clarity in 96K although some people say they don't hear any difference.Especially in high frequencies.

Since my computer can't handle 96K projects I'm always working in 44K.
When I'm mixing drums in 44K I often enable oversampling on plugins when they provide the option.

Really,48K makes a massive difference with 44K ?(not ironic)

I work with samples when I mix audio,and most of samples are 44K.So if your project is in 48K when you import samples your DAW converts these samples in 44K,and as we know there are always some artefacts.

So do you think 48K is valuable if we take that into account ?

 

It's another whole question,but I agree with you.We are at the end or at the beginning of something.
That's why I make music,to feel some positive emotions.When I'm making music I forget all this shit everywhere in this world.

 

This has already been happening for decades! I've worked with top ten artists, and it's really not always a nice experience. I was being told the Christmas #1 up to 3 months before the fact, for years in a row. The industry is rather fake.
Heck; the technology we use in this industry and the film industry all came from military stuff anyway.
Off-topic, soz.

@Blue Very good point you make about project settings uprezzing samples. Maybe I should just go back to recording @ 24bit 44.1kHz.

 

watch this and realise that humans can hardly tell the difference between 8 bit and 24 bit let alone 44.1 and 96.....
48 / 24 bit is a good standard because no human can detect more resolution than this...in fact no human can even approach that level of detail...its psychoacoustic wishful thinking....the thing is does it reach you...the music i mean......think of your fave song...do u care about the detail in the top end harmonics???

 

@sir jack spratsky
haha, I was going to insert the same video. But this one is good too.

 

I think of it like oversampling. Sometimes it works, sometimes it's too much.

 

There are two issues. The first is that there is no intrinsic reason why correctly implement conversion at 44.1 or 48 would sound any worse than a higher conversion rate. If you are recording a violin with no digital processing other than conversion, 44.1 will sound undetectably identical to anything higher.

Second issue, the minute you introduce any digital processing of the signal through audio plugins you will introduce damaging artefacts at and/or near the nyquist frequency of your chosen conversion rate. For example almost all filters cramp the nearer you get to the maximum frequency of the conversion rate...



This is what makes higher conversion rates 'sound better' than lower ones, because the near-nyquist distortions in the plugins gets shunted beyond the ability of the ear to resolve.

So, people who claim there's no difference are entirely correct, and people who claim higher frequency sounds better are also entirely correct. They're arguing about different things.

 

If the final result is 16 bits 44.1kz, I prefer to work at 32 bits and 88.2 kHz. The computer only has to divide by 2.
In some plugins, especially in distortion, compressors, ... working at high frequencies improves the quality, that's why the oversampling.
I prefer to work at 88.2 without using oversampling.

 

"Good" mix compared to a "bad" mix is the consequence,the sum of small details.
Mixing in 96K won't make your mix necessarily a "good" mix but it will make it "better".

 

I do. My Master George Massenburg does. Bob Clearmoutain, another hero, does. His Roxy Music " Avalon " remix in SACD 24-96 2.0 or - even better : 5.1 - just sounds amazing, way way better than a CD. Or the initial restoration of the first Alan Parson Edgar Poe (the original master, not his intermediate fucked up re-mix).

Try James Guthrie's 2003 5.1 mix of Dark Side, from the Immerson Box.

We could also quote Rupert Neeve, or Bob Ludwig, other amazing golden ears achivements.

Thanks to the harmonics too we get emotions. That's why musicians put their money and passion into very expensive instruments sometimes. Did you ever hear a Trainwreck Express closely ? Not the mention the famous " Strads " violins to be more obvious.

The Fletcher-Muson curves limits are wrong, mesured statistically, with sine waves. The human ear is NOT linear.

_____________________________________________________________

Working at 192 kHz leads to one delicate problem if you want to go back to 44.1 : the down sample convertion. As explained on AZ, one of the best solutions for this is the Weiss Saracon ( I save you some time here ).

EDIT : You'll find all those tracks on the web. Torrents are your friends here.

 

Last edited: Feb 15, 2019

Try for example a Fabfilter Pro-G on Hihats or Ride cymbals in 44K.Once you've found your settings,try to oversample Pro-G in 96K.
If you don't hear any change you probably have some problem with your ears.

 

More Cashews in the Pesto I recon...

 

I'm not sure how relevent this is to modern digital in the box stuff, but interesting section nonetheless..

 

Let's all jump out the window yeah ?

God it must be tough to live with this anticipation.

I pity your mind.

Shit can happen constantly, we didn't just drop in an era where stuff has to happen. We're just too connected now, we know about everything and it feels like shit hits the fan everywhere but it's only because we get the bad news in priority, because they are more sensational. Governments always tried to fuck the people and always will, centuries later i'm here and if you're willing to move your butt there is a big chance you can live your way around the system. We're all submitted to money and survival but i feel happy, i found the things i love doing, i make money, i can see the world, i work on my own and yes i pay taxes, i depend on the next pay but i'm having the life i wanted to have. I didn't poop a gold star, i just worked hard, more than most people and things worked out naturally... the truth is people have fallen in a wider form of apathy and i can assure you most of them just didn't have the courage to work hard for the thing they love to do or simply didn't think they could have reached their goal because they had this common state of mind : "these things don't happen for everyone you have to be super good or rich or know the right people and no luck can save you".

There is no way you're living a good and happy life thinking the way you do, i read your message as the one of a deeply sad pessimistic man and i hope things get better for you one day.

I'll reformulate one of your government opinion : They want you to think you're alone, they want you to fall into line and leave the good things to the elite.

But the truth is, there's really not much they can do, they have to stay subtle and not make big waves with strong decisions, it's just little things and illusions but life is still good for the bold if you have the guts and the balls.

 

Last edited: Feb 15, 2019

1. No one will ever be listening to music in 192khz in any future.
2. No one can tell much difference between a 44.1 khz final file and a 192 khz final file.
3. The advantage of 192khz is in recording & Processing headroom. a file processed at 192khz and delivered at 44.1 will have a great increase in perceived top end smoothness and bottom end clarity. every plugin adds distortion.