Hi!

I have been working on a remix for someone and have got it to the stage were It is almost ready for release, but I am having difficulty getting the Master to sound right. So far I, first mixed it in Ableton using A UAD-2 Satellite Quad firewire for all the effect, EQ's ect. and then rendered it to a 44,100khz 16bit stereo wav file. I then applied some additional UAD-2 Mastering Plugins (Mastering EQ, Precision Multiband Comp, Precision Maximizer and Precision Limiter) in a standalone audio editor running the effects through an effects chain to get the best result. After listening to the Remix and deciding that It sounded OK, I rendered it to a 44,100khz 16bit stereo wav file.
The problem is that when I play the Master in my audio editor it sounds fine, but when I play it back in Windows media player it sounds over compressed. Unlike in the editor, were the mix sounds quite level, when played back in Windows media player, the quality of the mix seems to differ dramatically and sounds that would otherwise sound quite well balanced, in say a drum less string breakdown, sound much too loud, making levels drop too harshly when the song is building back up. Another thing that I can't understand, is that whenever I play the same Master on a Windows media player that I have installed on my second Operating System, it sounds OK.
I have tried all sorts, like rendering with my Master effects on the Master track in Ableton, which didn't make any difference. I also Rewired ablteton through Cubase 7 and assigned all my effects to its mixer, sends etc. and still got the same problem, even after I exported Masters both with Cubases manual and real time modes. I can bi pass the problem by eliminating the Maximizer and Limiter from the Mastering effects chain, but really need to use these to get the right level. I have played the Master back through Windows media player on other computers and on a car stereo, both sounded fine, although I don't really want to hand it over until I can get it sounding good on my Comp, at least then I know it is definitely passable.

Can anyone give me any tips that might help me to get around having to get someone else to Master it?

 

try using a clipper instead of a limiter. It's worth the try...

 

update your media codecs..... try klite or shark007 there are still plenty more but i use klite mega or standard almost exclusively

 

hello, twinny123,

sure not this is why your master does not sound as good as you would like it, but this thing is sure, for mastering level, stage, processing, one never should do anything with sixteen bit files... *no*

go back one stage, render your files in twenty four bit depth, apply your mastering chain to these files, at least the possible bit depth problem is closed out... *yes*

you can do your test hearing through xmplay, for example, which is one small, simple, program, does not do anything with the sound when, if, set up, options wise, properly, also is able to use asio drivers... *yes*

hoping this helps some tiny bit, keep up the good work...

 

Maybe try bit-accurate player, like foobar2000 *yes*
WMP is notorious for altering the sound without your consent

Otherwise I agree with nadirtozenith, 24bit is the standard these days. *yes*
Stems might be rendered even in 32bit floating-point to prevent overload.
And processing ought to be exclusively in 64bit double precision PCM floating-point

EDIT: Also try checking WMP's equalizer. It might be overloaded and thus apply limiting *yes*

 

It sounds like in WMP there is a 'volume protector' or something active. It is limiting the volume output. You say you only have the problem on WMP right? The same file plays back fine in your car? Seems like a plugin in WMP or one of the codecs that Windows is using is acting up. Stuff in codec packs can enable 'normalizers'. For movie watching this can be awesome. It ups the volume during dialog, and lower it when a big explosion or something happens. When listening to music, this can be a disaster .

Like someone here already said, use simple programs like VLC player or Foobar2000 without any DSP plugins enabled so you know it's playing without anything in between. VLC or Foobar2000 don't use 'codec packs' installed on your system, but control everything themselves so you know there is nothing in between.

 

More likely evens it with the explosion (raises the gain around the highest amplitude point). Normalization is not a "rider". Or, it depends if you have an option of top db to reach. But still, I'd call it a 'leveller', not a rider.

 

I tried all of the above and still when I play back in my Windows media player or the classic version on my main operating system, I still get the over compressed effect. It wouldn't normally bother me that much with it sounding OK on other operating systems through the same player and other players, but it is just that I have given Masters out in the past that have sounded OK on everything but my Windows media player and when they were uploaded to Sound cloud they sounded over compressed and the mix didn't sound as clean as it did on my audio editor, even after I had done good mp3 conversion before uploading. This is why I am concerned, because although the person I am handing the files can listen to them and OK them, when they upload them, they sound completely different.

 

As long as every song sounds shitty through your WMP and not only your mixdown, then you don't have why to worry about. As long as the WMP doesn't make your song a exception, then you're fine!

 

Like dipje says, it sounds like it's WMP that's at fault.

Turn off all of the 'Enhancements' (EQ, SRS WOW effects etc) in WMP.

If still not right maybe check whether WMP is playing through a different output on your soundcard to Ableton perhaps with EQ or FX on, or whether WMP plays through an onboard soundcard driver where Ableton uses your external soundcard etc.

What you describe is what the onboard Realtek drivers of my laptop do unless I switch off the Realtek EQ.

 

hello, twinny123,

have nearly never used the windows media player, so only my questions here...

does wmp have some possibility to upload files to your soundcloud account, if it does, did you use this possibility (because of the same faulty sound on both places)?

with those intertwining settings between internal sound cards, wmp, different drivers, etc. there is some chance that wmp is (as shitty as it is) the real culprit...

all the best...

later edit, does wmp have some possibility to change the driver it uses for its operations (also did you try to use some different, for example, asio drivers)?

all the best again...

 

No, windows media player does not allow soundcloud uploads, I have Ableton which is supposed to do that, but that doesn't connect to the soundcloud page properly when I select the upload to soundcloud option, the page opens, but there is no log in option. I also tried updating my systems IDT high def audio driver just now, which hasn't solved the problem. The thing is, is that at least my installed Windows media player is giving me true audio reproduction of what I might hear when I have uploaded. If I cant get the sound that I want without eliminating the maximizer and the limiter, I will probably have to get a Mastering Engineer to have a go. Thanks.

 

Try to open your sound file in sound editor like audacity and compare the waveform (and sound) with the original master. That might get us somewhere *yes*

 

I already tried it in Audacity. First I played a file that I had rendered with all Mastering effects on my Master channel in Ableton, this sounded fine in Audacity but Overcompressed in Windows media player. I then got a file that I had rendered with Ableton at -4db with no mastering effects on and loaded it up in Audacity, I then applied all the Mastering effects that I had previously applied in Ableton, to do this I used a plugin chain. The end result was a Master that was peaking -0.2 db under Zero and when I played it through in Audacity, it sounded fine, but when I played it on Windows media player it still sounded as if it had way to much compression or on it or something.

 

hello, twinny123,

there is no need to go for any mastering if the work is done already... *no*

try as Andrew suggested, also try some other media player, for test hearing the mastered tracks, the uploaded tracks, closing out some faulty setting in wmp... *yes*

make also sure that this other player uses some other driver architecture, check every possibility (control panel, device manager, driver settings, etc. for wmp, for the sound card) for finding the faulty setting, because quite possibly wmp uses some different driver, or different access points to the layers of the operating system than your other, used in the work process, programs... *yes*

after reading all things through again, it seems for me that, for example, your workstation, your audio editor, uses one thing, wmp uses one other, different (may it be setting, driver, architecture layer, dunno), but if the same file does not sound (very nearly) the same on every tool on your system, there must be some very simple, easy to oversee, source for the whole thing... *yes*

try to test again, in which programs does your material sound correctly, through or with which driver set, then check everything again, then cross check everything again... *yes*

sorry, if there are some confusing statements, this here me is really tired, in dire need of some sleep... *yes*

from all what is possible, wish you the best...

edit, will check back here in about three hours... *yes*

 

Yes, thanks for your suggestions and I tried in Ableton without the Asio driver and only the MME/Directx settings of my sound card. Doing this gave me the over compressed effect that I was getting but without having to render every time I wanted to hear the comparison.

 

twinny123, since it sounds bad when you listen through software that uses DirectX or MME, I would check the Windows Mixer settings and Windows Sound settings in general. All the sliders and settings should be set on default. You also said that it sounds fine on your other computer with WMP so the master is fine. If you're uploading it to SoundCloud don't MP3 it first. Just upload the finished 44.1 or 48k 24bit master [I always upload 48/24 WAVs] and SoundCloud [Youtube or whatever] will do the encoding to MP3 for you. Otherwise SoundCloud will re-encode your already lossy encoded MP3 into another MP3. That's kinda horrible, wouldn't you say? ;)

Cheers!

 

My windows mixer only has two playback device options and both sound the same when playing the Master through WMP. I did try updating my IDT audio drivers to a newer version though and my Master sounded as good on my WMP as it sounded on Ableton when running the Master mix with an ASIO driver before rendering. The new IDt audio driver also gave me a better sound when running Ableton with the mme\directx driver. So I rendered a Master with the new IDT audio driver installed (sounded fine through WMP), Re-installed the old IDT audio driver and then played it through WMP and it still sounded Bad. The thing is, is that even if I render at 24bit 44,1, 48khz wave, I will more than likely still get the same sound when I upload as I got with files rendered at that quality when I played them through my WMP, with the older IDT audio driver installed. If I try Mastering the mix with the older IDT audio drivers on the MME\ Directx settings with Ableton running my Mix, I may be able to get a balance that sounds good enough for me to pass of as a Master.

 

Get rid of Windows media player...

Get VLC player...

 

Check if you got any effect enabled in your drivers settings AND windows settings.
Sometimes, there are effects at drivers level, and they are bypassed in ASIO only, because ASIO bypass everything (for low latency).

But playing back to MME/Direct X, you get those effects applied. So you "adapt" your mix to those unwanted effects at driver level.

Mix in ASIO only.
Like other ppl said, 24 bits export before mastering and use VLC or Foobar2000 with no effects to listen back to your work