If only we used MIDI to control volume just for a single channel...

I agree that for this case the resolution is not needed though.

 

The protocol is not really geared towards having better resolution, I mean there's SysEx and NRPN for higher resolution but these would be vendor specific and not universal (e: not to mention painful to implement, trust me on this one!).

IPv4 vs IPv6 is a bad comparison since they're completely separate, a closer one would be HTTP/1.1 to HTTP/2, use 2 if you can then fall back to 1.1 if you can't.

the previously mentioned CI handles this, kind of like the HTTP UPGRADE header: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP/1.1_Upgrade_header

 

thats all good for volume, but MIDI controls more than that

 

Our primitive ancient ancestors thought of that too, giving us *multiple* channels, with multiple CC, to use simultaneously. + NRPN for future-proofing, to send whatever newfangled stuff manufacturers come up with *in the future*.
The reason NRPN are NRPN and not RPN is not because lack of standards/unified framework, but due to the temporal nature of reality (The word "tokamak" didn't exist before people needed to talk about tokamaks for a similar reason. Not because English (or Russian) is a weak & poorly standardised language.)

But an industry that makes 5 mediocre products instead of rolling them into one great one (because bills need to be paid; thinking u-he synths) & depends on proprietary standards for customer retention actually adopting an open, universal standard & sticking to it? Sounds legit.

First I'm hearing of this. What, exactly, are you hoping to control?

 

Last edited: Jan 19, 2020

If that olde-time MIDI was good enough for Jesus than it's good enough for me. And in this case by "Jesus" I mean Thomas Dolby.

 

i cant tell if you are joking. i assume you must be since you are a member of an audio forum :/

 

now we gonna enjoy shitty autotuned-ibiza-techno-trap drops in higher resolution yay

 

If for some reason you can't see that webpage, here you are:
Details about MIDI 2.0™, MIDI-CI, Profiles and Property Exchange

Introduction to MIDI 2.0™
MIDI 2.0 is the largest set of additions to MIDI since the very first MIDI connection between 2 manufacturers was made at the 1983 NAMM Show. MIDI 1.0 has evolved with many new features over the past 36 years. MIDI 2.0 continues that ongoing evolution and creates a foundation for expansion for many years into the future.

The MIDI 2.0 updates MIDI with new auto-configuration, extended resolution, increased expressiveness, and tighter timing -- all while maintaining a high priority on backward compatibility. This major update of MIDI paves the way for a new generation of advanced interconnected MIDI devices, while still preserving interoperability with the millions of existing MIDI 1.0 devices. One of the core goals of MIDI 2.0 is to also enhance the MIDI 1.0 feature set whenever possible.

1.1 MIDI Capability Inquiry (MIDI-CI)
The additional capabilities that MIDI 2.0 brings to devices are enabled by MIDI-CI. The basic idea is that if devices have a bidirectional connection, they can exchange their capabilities with each other. Devices can share their configuration and what MIDI functions are supported.

Devices use a bidirectional link to configure MIDI features when both devices agree to support that feature. MIDI-CI discovers and configures device features using 3 categories of inquiry: Profile Configuration, Property Exchange, and Protocol Negotiation.

If a device does not support any new features, it uses the MIDI 1.0 as usual. Devices connected to that device will continue to use MIDI 1.0 in communication with that device.

Expanding MIDI with new features requires a new protocol with extended MIDI messages. To protect backwards compatibility in an environment with expanded features, devices need to confirm the capabilities of other connected devices. When 2 devices are connected to each other, they use MIDI 1.0 and confirm each other's capabilities before using expanded features. If both devices share support for the same expanded MIDI features they can agree to use those expanded MIDI features. MIDI-CI provides this mechanism.

MIDI-CI: Expanding MIDI while Protecting Backwards Compatibility:

MIDI Capability Inquiry (MIDI-CI) is a mechanism to allow us to expand MIDI with new features while protecting backward compatibility with MIDI devices that do not understand these newly defined features.

MIDI-CI separates older MIDI products from newer products with new capabilities and provides a mechanism for two MIDI devices to understand what new capabilities are supported.

MIDI-CI assumes and requires bidirectional communication. Once a MIDI-CI connection is established between devices, query and response messages define what capabilities each device has.

MIDI-CI then negotiates or auto-configures to use those features that are common between the devices. MIDI-CI provides test mechanisms when enabling new features. If a test fails, then devices fall back to using MIDI 1.0 for that feature. MIDI-CI improves MIDI capabilities in several key areas.

MIDI-CI allows devices to use an expanded MIDI protocol with high resolution and multiple per note controllers. It allows for incremental adoption of new MIDI features by providing a fallback to MIDI 1.0 devices in all cases.

MIDI-CI Includes Queries for 3 major areas of expanded MIDI functionality:

1. 
   
   
   • Profile Configuration
   • Property Exchange
   • Protocol Negotiation

The MIDI Manufacturers Association Adopts the MIDI-CI specification at Winter NAMM 2018
The MIDI Manufacturers Association adopted the MIDI Capability Inquiry specification at the Winter NAMM show 2018 and it is available for download here. However there is a new revision being worked on to incorporate recent changes to other specifications under development.

As MIDI-CI is a fundamental technology and needs adoption of the other specifications it enables (Common Rules for Profile Configuration, Common Rules for Property Exchange and the MIDI 2.0 protocol specification), developers should understand that the MIDI-CI will still have minor updates to the currently available specification document.


1.2 PROFILE CONFIGURATION
There are some common types of MIDI devices that all tend to do very similar things. We can define Profiles to define how MIDI controls the common features. MIDI-CI Profile Configuration allows devices to discover and turn on Profiles for better interoperability and ease of use while lowering the need for manual configuration of devices by users.

To explain, let's consider MIDI controlled pianos. Pianos have a lot of characteristics in common and we can control those characteristics by a common set of MIDI messages. MIDI messages used by all pianos include Note On/Off and Sustain Pedal. A Piano Profile might define that Note Number 60 is Middle C, define a specific velocity response curve, define the use of a variable Sustain Pedal (not just On/Off) message, define a controller message for the angle of the lid opening, define a message to select the type of stretch tuning, and more. Any device that reports support for the Piano Profile would have to conform to that design.

Advanced MIDI users might be familiar with manually "mapping" all the controllers from one device to another device to make them talk to each other. If 2 devices agree to use a common Profile, MIDI-CI Profile Configuration can auto-configure the mappings. Profiles can be written for device types or for unique applications that are used across multiple device types. Profiles might be written for instruments such as pianos, electric pianos, drawbar organs, drum sets, analog synthesizers. Feature Profiles could define common messages to control orchestral articulation, direct pitch control models, or per-note expression. Profile can also serve non-musical applications such as lighting controllers or industrial machines.

The following video has a demonstration of how Profile Configuration works.

1.3 PROPERTY EXCHANGE
Property Exchange is a set of System Exclusive messages that devices can use discover, get, and set many properties of MIDI devices. The properties that can be exchanged include device configuration settings, a list of patches with names and other meta data, a list of controllers and their destinations, and much more.

Property Exchange can allow for devices to auto map controllers, choose programs by name, change state and also provide visual editors to DAW's without any prior knowledge of the device or specially crafted software. This means that Devices could work on Windows, Mac, Linux, IOS and Web Browsers and may provide tighter integrations with DAW's and hardware controllers.

Property Exchange uses JSON inside of the System Exclusive messages. JSON (JavaScript Object Notation) is a human readable format for exchanging data sets. The use of JSON expands MIDI with a whole new area of potential capabilities.

1.4 PROTOCOL NEGOTIATION
MIDI-CI Protocol Negotiation allows devices to select between using the MIDI 1.0 Protocol or the MIDI 2.0 Protocol. Two devices that have established a 2-way MIDI-CI session can select a Protocol and features of that Protocol.
A MIDI Protocol is the language of MIDI, or the set of messages that MIDI uses. Architectural concepts and semantics from MIDI 1.0 are the same in the MIDI 2.0 Protocol. Compatibility for translation to/from MIDI 1.0 Protocol is given high priority in the design of MIDI 2.0 Protocol.

The MIDI 1.0 Protocol and the MIDI 2.0 Protocol have many messages in common, messages that are identical in both protocols. The MIDI 2.0 Protocol extends some MIDI 1.0 messages with higher resolution and new features. There are newly defined messages. Some can be used in both protocols and some are exclusive to the MIDI 2.0 Protocol.

MIDI 2.0 has a new Universal MIDI Packet format for carrying MIDI 1.0 Protocol messages and MIDI 2.0 Protocol messages. A Universal MIDI Packet contains a MIDI message which consists of one to four 32-bit words.


The Universal MIDI Packet format is suited to sending MIDI data over high speed transports such as USB or a network connection or between applications running inside a personal computer OS.

The traditional 5 pin DIN transport from MIDI 1.0 uses a byte stream rather than packets. At the moment, there is no plan to use the Universal MIDI Packet on the 5 pin DIN transport. Unless/Until that plan changes, 5 pin DIN will only support the MIDI 1.0 Protocol.

1.5.1 Message Types
The first 4 bits of every message contain a Message Type. The Message Type is used as a classification of message functions.


Message Type Examples:


1.5.2 Groups
The Universal MIDI Packet carries 16 Groups of MIDI messages, each Group containing an independent set of System Messages and 16 MIDI Channels. Therefore, a single connection using the Universal MIDI Packet carries up to 16 sets of System Messages and up to 256 Channels.

Each of the 16 Groups can carry either MIDI 1.0 Protocol or MIDI Protocol. Therefore, a single connection can carry both protocols simultaneously. MIDI 1.0 Protocol and MIDI Protocol messages cannot be mixed together within 1 Group.

1.5.3 Jitter Reduction Timestamps
The Universal MIDI Packet format adds a Jitter Reduction Timestamp mechanism. A Timestamp can be prepended to any MIDI 1.0 Protocol message or MIDI 2.0 Protocol message for improved timing accuracy.

1.5.4 MIDI 1.0 Protocol Inside the Universal MIDI Packet
All existing MIDI 1.0 messages are carried in the Universal MIDI 1.0. As an example, this diagram from the protocol specification shows how MIDI 1.0 Channel Voice Messages are carried in 32-bit packets:


System messages, other than System Exclusive, are encoded similarly to Channel Voice Messages. System Exclusive messages vary in size, can be very large, and can span multiple Universal MIDI Packets.

1.5.5 MIDI 2.0 Protocol Messages
The MIDI 2.0 Protocol uses the architecture of MIDI 1.0 Protocol to maintain backward compatibility and easy translation while offering expanded features.

• Extends the data resolution for all Channel Voice Messages.
• Makes some messages easier to use by aggregating combination messages into one atomic message.
• Adds new properties for several Channel Voice Messages.
• Adds several new Channel Voice Messages to provide increased Per-Note control and musical expression.
• Adds New data messages include System Exclusive 8 and Mixed Data Set. The System Exclusive 8 message is very similar to MIDI 1.0 System Exclusive but with 8-bit data format. The Mixed Data Set Message is used to transfer large data sets, including non-MIDI data.
• Keeps all System messages the same as in MIDI 1.0.

Expanded Resolution and Expanded Capabilities

This example of a MIDI 2.0 Protocol Note message shows the expansions beyond the MIDI 1.0 Protocol equivalent. The MIDI 2.0 Protocol Note On has higher resolution Velocity. The 2 new fields, Attribute Type and Attribute data field, provide space for additional data such as articulation or tuning details



Easier to Use: Registered Controllers (RPN) and Assignable Controllers (NRPN)

Creating and editing RPNs and NRPNs with MIDI 1.0 Protocol requires the use of compound messages. These can be confusing or difficult for both developers and users. MIDI 2.0 Protocol replaces RPN and NRPN compound messages with single messages. The new Registered Controllers and Assignable Controllers are much easier to use.

The MIDI 2.0 Protocol replaces RPN and NRPN with 16,384 Registered Controllers and 16,384 Assignable Controller that are as easy to use as Control Change messages.

Managing so many controllers might be cumbersome. Therefore, Registered Controllers are organized in 128 Banks, each Bank having 128 controllers. Assignable Controllers are also organized in 128 Banks, each Bank having 128 controllers.

Registered Controllers and Assignable Controllers support data values up to 32bits in resolution.


1.5.6 MIDI 2.0 Program Change Message
MIDI 2.0 Protocol combines the Program Change and Bank Select mechanism from MIDI 1.0 Protocol into one message. The MIDI 1.0 mechanism for selecting Banks and Programs requires sending three MIDI messages. MIDI 2.0 changes the mechanism by replicating the Banks Select and Program Change in one new MIDI 2.0 Program Change message. Banks and Programs in MIDI 2.0 translate directly to Banks and Programs in MIDI 1.0.


The MIDI 2.0 Program Change message always selects a Program. A Bank Valid bit (B) determines whether a Bank Select is also performed by the message.

If Bank Valid = 0, then the receiver performs the Program Change without selecting a new Bank; The receiver keeps its currently selected Bank. Bank MSB and Bank LSB data fields are filled with zeroes.

If Bank Valid = 1, then the receiver performs both Bank and Program Change.

Other option flags that are not defined yet and are Reserved.

1.5.7 New Data Messages for MIDI 1.0 Protocol and MIDI 2.0 Protocol
New data messages include System Exclusive 8 and Mixed Data Set. The System Exclusive 8 message is very similar to MIDI 1.0 System Exclusive but with 8-bit data format. The Mixed Data Set Message is used to transfer large data sets, including non-MIDI data. Both messages can be used when using the Universal MIDI Packet format for MIDI 1.0 Protocol or MIDI 2.0 Protocol.

1.6 The Future of MIDI 1.0
MIDI 1.0 is not being replaced. Rather it is being extended and is expected to continue, well integrated with the new MIDI 2.0 environment. It is part of the Universal MIDI Packet, the fundamental MIDI data format. Many MIDI devices will not need any of the new features of MIDI 2.0 in order to perform all their functions. Some devices will continue to use the MIDI 1.0 Protocol while using other extensions of MIDI 2.0, such as Profile Configuration or Property Exchange.

1.7 When?
The foundational specification, MIDI-CI has been published and is available for download. Other key MIDI 2.0 specifications are nearing completion in the MIDI Manufacturers Association. But it will take several years to write numerous Profile and Property Exchange specifications to follow.

The MMA put out a press release at the beginning of 2019 that listed just some of the companies that are already prototyping or making plans for products to come. Those that agreed to be mentioned include Ableton/Cycling '74, Art+Logic, Bome Software, Google, imitone, Native Instruments, Roland, ROLI, Steinberg, TouchKeys, and Yamaha.

However, we do not expect any MIDI 2.0 products to be released in 2019. For MIDI to be fully useable, the industry needs devices, applications, operating systems, and DAWs to support these new specifications. It will take time for a whole system of devices to be available.

In the meantime, MIDI 1.0 works well. In fact, MIDI 2.0 is just more MIDI. As new features arrive on new instruments, they will work with existing devices and system. The same was true for long list of other additions made to MIDI since 1983. MIDI 2.0 is just part of the evolution of MIDI that has gone on for 36 years. The step by step evolution continues.

1.8 Why Join the MMA (MIDI Manufacturers Association)
If you are a developer of MIDI software or hardware, there are a lot of reasons to join the MIDI Manufacturers Association now. This article includes some information about MIDI 2.0, but it is definitely not enough to start developing a MIDI 2.0 product. The reason we do not release specification details before they are finally approved is that if information is released too early and then changes are made, it can lead to interoperability problems.

If you join the MMA now, you not only get access to the current version of the full MIDI 2.0 specification, but will also have a voice in future MIDI specifications including Profiles and Property Exchange messages.

To implement MIDI-CI and MIDI 2.0, you need a manufacturers SysEx ID. A SysEx ID by itself is $250 a year, but it is included with your MMA membership. You will also have access to the MMA Github which has code for MIDI 2.0 to MIDI 1.0 translation (and vis versa), MIDI 2.0 Scope, a tool for sending and testing MIDI 2.0 messages developed by Art and Logic and Property Exchange Work Bench, an application developed by Yamaha for prototyping and testing Property Exchange.

So we encourage you to join the MIDI Manufacturers Association now and get access to all the documents you will need to get a head start on MIDI 2.0


Cheers

 

Last edited: Jan 21, 2020

@taskforce Yupp, but... ehm... I don't really need it.

 

More press coverage

https://www.musicradar.com/news/mid...iggest-advance-in-music-technology-in-decades

 

2.0 is looking enticing now. Sounds like a lot of auto formatting and can save instrument articulations per note.

 

Recently read on kvr...
Even here, "analog" feel... In midi 2.0...
Now we don't need analog warm tube hardware anymore... It is in every plugin, in every GUI, and now in digital MIDI 2.0 protocol
I miss you, digital... Analog is everywhere... Warm zeroes, silky ones...

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2020

@Fudsey Plange @mild pump milk and all the rest who somehow oppose to this. I got no beef with any of you and i like you all, you should know this. I love Fudsey's taste of humour and mild pump's "drunken kungfu" lol. Now i am not the person that goes about putting negative remarks on people's posts. Not how i roll. But sometimes i don't understand you guys. Now really. What is wrong with you people. Why the hate and irony.
Fudsey overeacted (imho) about "fallacious memes and gibberish" , mild pump quoted the "analog", out of context giving his own interpretation...
~40 yrs now people complain about the lackluster midi resolution and complex sysex in order to achieve interactive communication between midi machines. Now that it's all mended and achievable, excuse me for saying so, you guys complain for all the wrong reasons? Beats me man. You don't like what it brings, it's midi v.1 compatible, keep on doing what you already have been doing.
There is nothing fallacious about the new implementation. I copy pasted all the siginificant parts of how it works. If you don't understand it or are bored to read, there's other threads that might interest you. And the article wrote: "Enhanced, 32-bit resolution gives controls a smooth, continuous, "analog" feel ". If you think this means analog in they way you quoted, well, think again. There is a reason people put written words in " " quotes. So yes, 32bit res is much closer to what a human ear can interpret as "analog" control. To me, all in all, MIDI 2.0 is a real step forward, a much needed "21st century compliant" change.
Cheers

 

It is called bad sense of humour, jokes or irony...
Analog feel they mean - way smoother steps between A and B transitions of MIDI information or so... Meaning more accurate pitching automation, modulations or more velocity info, way precise cutoff knobs while writing automation, timing etc etc etc etc....

But this has another side of my message.
It is just a new marketing Pandora's box. After this MIDI 2.0 implementation everywhere you will understand what i am talking about. There will way more marketing analog sound midi synths, more epithets, beautiful words, Slate's slang etc. than it is now.
You will see a lot of MIDI 2.0 Analog Precision Accuracy, Top-Notch Microscopic MIDI and Automations, Etc etc etc.........

The worse will be like this: Buy our platinum ultra precise MIDI 2.0 cables for only 9999 BUCKS and you will get USB 3.0 wire with MIDI 2.0 support (MIDI 1.0 compatible) for free!

Throw away your tape machines, tube preamps and console, because we mix digitally with MIDI 2.0 precise controllers and MIDI 2.0 filters automations.

It is just a new marketing shit standards. Music production with 2.0 may become more flexible, but not analog.
And also wait for all billions of your DAWs and plugins, kontakt's remastered by midi2.0 editions, to be updated with 2.0 support. And more


It just open a new story. The midi1to2 transition may become more painful. Maybe not. But ANALOG FEEL of midi 2.0 is already first message

 

I've heard midi 2.0 is a massive racist.
Nothing good can come from this...

Think I'll wait for midi 2.1

 

FWIW the increase in resolution thing will make sensitive controllers seem more analog.
Not the same thing, but all digital domains seem analog when they can fool a human sense. Just like an 8 bit wave sounds like shit, a 16 color image, a 10 FPS video,...

Anyways for my needs the current MIDI is enough, but I'm sure when the protocol is widely implemented cool things will be possible.

 

And how is this a bad thing. I live to learn and learn to live. There is always a marketing side to commercially available products. And there is a scientific side to some of those too. As musicians, engineers, producers etc., we 've been taught to accept new technologies for what they have to offer not for what commercial manufacturers may exploit for profit. What you are talking about like here,

, has nothing to do with what the tech itself brings. While i get your notion and up to a point i find your remarks correct, you need to separate the black sheep from the white so to speak.
There may be greed and ill will behind commercialism through almost any kind of product. From ice-cream to chicken to cpus to cars, whatever.
This only means we should be more aware of where we put our trust. Life isn't as simple as when i was growing and it's not because now i'm 54 and not as agile as when i was 24, it's because when i was 24 i knew i had to go to that special cafe in order to find my friends. Now i have to let them know via sms or FB. But as soon as i open my FB there's another ton of messages for me to take care of. So, where i'm getting at? Nothing is simple anymore not even a simple coffee invitation lol. We need to keep educating ourselves and embrace the innovations that aim to better our lives while at the same time avoid exploitation from those who want to just capitalize on a technology's momentum. And at least, this is easier done than said, especially for those of us who are older and more experienced.
Thanks for listening.

 

Last edited: Jan 31, 2020

I normally don't like to rant, but I'm drunk so fuck it.

For the people not getting it: If you don't see the benefit, you shouldn't care, nobody is going to wrest MIDI1 from your hands. No one is deprecating it. Keep on using it, nothing will change.

People who _will_ notice are the devs who most certainly will see the benefit, and by extension, eventually will you. Just let nature take it's course. I know I will benefit eventually, as someone who perpetually struggles with MIDI clock sync in extended setups.

By comparison, unless you're a web dev, how many actual deprecations have you noticed? The web still works, no? But if you are a dev, then you (after some initial confusion) will appreciate all of the new goodness headed your way.

In words of the MIDI association: "In the meantime, MIDI 1.0 works well. In fact, MIDI 2.0 is just more MIDI." I recommend you internalize that phrase before you make yourself look more foolish.

Rant over.

 

Great answer.

Arghhh... don't rub salt on my wounds.
Now it's me who wants to get drunk to forget ... bur it's only 13:04h ... well, fuck it.. late enough ...