How can you get such a sound in Guitar Rig 5? I have never managed, even all those Rammfire stuff etc, they all sounds very weak and nothing like this?

 

Yeah.. its the same here even if i may draw the line much earlier than that sometimes. But if its not a good production or thye growl/scream all the time then i drop it.

 

This is funny, because I'm a metal guitarist and to me the response for your question was abundantly clear at two seconds of listening to that video, yet no one else said it besides @sacredl... Yes, the secret to heavy and fat guitar tone is THE BASS. The guitars in that video aren't fat at all (rather the opposite). The bass is.

Even more so, when producing metal guitars first thing everybody does is hi-passing the hell out of them (around 100Hz or even more sometimes) so they're never fat at all to begin with. To have a big guitar tone it has to be DENSE. You get that with layering, and most of the modern metal albums have quad-tracked rythm guitars. They have to be very tightly played to work out, though (or be ready to unleash your editing skills if they're not, lol).

So basically the key is: dense layered guitar tones which get hi-passed to blend with the bass. What I do is to to split the bass into two or three tracks (depending on the song): DI track for the bass, and the others to distort the mids and highs in a pleasing way that blends with the guitars WITHOUT noticing the harsh highs you get with distorted bass (low-pass here). Then you route them into a buss and compress the hell out of them. The bass is a very uneven instrument, and heavy compression evens out all the notes making the blending process easier. Automation or things like Waves bass rider work wonders BEFORE the compressor to lighten up its workload

Current "modern" guitar tones so-called "djent" are thin and shrill at the extreme with a very prominent midrange peak, and rely 100% in huge bass and drum sounds. To me they sound like absolute garbage compared to the kickass guitar tones of the 2000's metal albums, but if that's your thing (or your client's) you also need to learn how to get those sounds.

Free metal souvenir for those of you who don't like grunt vocals ;)

 

Last edited: May 3, 2017

Guitar Rig is shit. You could possibly get a good sound out of it, but it doesn't worth the work. Download the (free) Ignite Emissary and NadIR and the GuitarHack impulse pack. Instant modern Metal tone. (having a good guitar with humbuckers wouldn't hurt either)

Also, an elementary process that's worth mentioning for the noobs - you track the same guitar part twice, and then pan them hard left and right.

 

The day Dimebag was shot was one of the darkest days of my life. Huge loss for the heavy metal community and he was an excellent song writer, and guitar player. The scene never quite recovered imo, todays heavy metal bands cant hold a candle to Pantera.

Edit; Like @Jaymz said, he was such a cool, friendly type of guy.

 

Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017

While you answered as if I was trying to mix metal guitars although I'm looking for how the energy is built, there were some interesting details in your descriptions that I would like to elaborate on.
The secret to intense energy can't be the bass in itself. In the beginning of the video I posted, the guy is playing (I learnt that overnight) the intro of Pantera's "Walk". There's no bass in that first 5 or 6 seconds, yet there's energy.

It rings a string in me, if you understand the picture.

But, there are other songs I really love, but don't carry this kind of energy. For example, "Chop Suey" by System of a Down, or "Killing in the name" by Rage against the machine. The latter gets its energy just from the groove, the former from the singing. Compare those songs with the following, of which I feel this "guitar energy" (note: I only talk of the riffs):

 

not only that he was an awesome dude who always hung out with the fans at his shows. Often found at the bar drinking Jack and beers and sharing knowledge and helping all that he came in contact with

 

My foundations lie in hard rock and heavy metal, big time.

 

@tulamide About Rage against the machine first album, listen closely : you will hear a guitar in the MIDDLE ;)
There are, at least, 3 takes. And i know for sure he used two or three different guitars for those takes.
One of the best sound ever (and the band,of course).

side note : James hetfield said he was searching for FAT tone for years and years in the bass domain...until he discovered ALL power was in the mids "crunch" ;) And we know what is Metallica guitar sound.

About nowadays production (djent, 7/8/9/10 strings, downtuning...bands with two guitars and NO bass ;) ), there is a GLOBAL tonal shift.
And big low cut...even on bass.

For a simple reason : when your fundamental is lower, it is simply OUT of range :D

E standard guitar : 82Hz
E standard bass : 41 Hz (already low, but it still can live on most systems)

Now a "simple" 7 strings :
B standard guitar : 62 Hz
B standard bass : 31 Hz

Your fundamental is already under what most speakers can reproduce.
(45 Hz is the limit for some commercial EDM producer)

I don't even speak about lower downtuning/ 8 9 10 strings...

It explain what @Torrao said :
"Current "modern" guitar tones so-called "djent" are thin and shrill at the extreme with a very prominent midrange peak, and rely 100% in huge bass and drum sounds. To me they sound like absolute garbage compared to the kickass guitar tones of the 2000's metal albums, but if that's your thing (or your client's) you also need to learn how to get those sounds."

When the biggest "regular" downtuning in the 2000's was B standard (apart some bands like Korn in A, and rely heavily on BASS guitar), low cutting guitar was enough.

Nowadays, even bass guitars are heavily low cut. Because their fundamentals couldn't be heard on most systems.
That's why we even see metal bands with two guitars...and no bassist.

Like Animals as Leaders. And there are still bass freq, because their lower string is now around standard bass tuning ;) :

 

@Pipotron3000
Tosin Abasi is an 8 string GOD! This guy bleeds odd meters...

 

Which is kinda ironic because IMO Metallica's guitar tone has been constantly changing for the worse. If you listen to the Ride The Lightning (which is like THE iconic 80's heavy metal thrash sound) the guitars are very bass heavy, definitely not aggressively hipassed, the mids are very scooped and the whole thing is swimming in reverb and it sounds cool as shit. I hate when people say it is all about mids and that scooped sound is like a beginner thing that may sound cool when playing alone sitting on your bed but... Yeah no, sometimes that's exactly what you want.

 

OMG! Thanks for clarifying. I made a mistake by setting bass = bass guitar, while bass was meant as explaining the freq range. I'm sometimes a bit stupid

Now that really helped me a lot!

 

Their sound in general got worse with years, at least for my ears. There is a guy on YT, his name is Bgelais or something like that, i think he is French or French Canadian not sure. Anyway, he made impulses for el. guitars from kill em all, ride the lightning, master, ajfa and black album also for pantera.
He has them available for download for free and they sound 100% exactly as on their records.
He even has a channel strip on youtube, showing how to use them, chorus, tube screamer, etc and basically if your guitar is half decent with decent pickups, you can get a pro sound for nothing, sounds better than some guys on yt playing a few thousand dollar gear.

 

BTW there's a quite obscure plugin from a now apparently defunct company called "dammit distortion". It aims to recreate the Black Album guitar sound. While it rather amazingly absolutely nails the tone there's something off about how it reacts to playing dynamics etc. However I find it is an amazing "layer" sound. More conventional sound + dammit distortion (maybe even two dammit's panned l/r) = great fat tone with lots of definition and chunk.

 

Try the bgelais impulses, imo very hard to top em.

 

Theirs no rules in mixing \m/ remember its the source and all the elements together that will be cause for or the need to HP or LP anything in a mix... old school was pretty much guitars,bass drums and vox... if you have a bass track up the middle with the kick and snare and guitars left and right panned you dont have to cut all the lows out of the sides... i only do what it needs anyway i never do anything less i feel it needs it lol... Todays heavy music not all but alot has like 3 bass tracks one up the middle and 2 others spread a lil left and right to fill it out more + all the sample tracks and bass drops backing fill tracks loads of em that you wouldnt even know was in there unless you muted all the other tracks... so if you solo the guitars they sound alot thinner now days because they cut alot of the mud out of the way to make room for everything else... Alot of heavy guitars and bass have been converted to midi via the dry direct recordings then a sampler is used of some kind to follow along to add thickness and balls>>> so alot of guitars are HP from 80hz to even 150hz ;) i HP my bass guitar up to 70hz most times cause i just dont need it and it makes room for the Kick aswell \m/ I always say just do what you feel sounds good and keep Rockin \m/

 

here is a clear example of how the sample follows the main guitar riff you here it kick in right befor the guitars and then follow the guitar its huge \m/ not to mention all the other elements going on in there \m/ you can tell the guitars have many layers aswell an HP

OH YEAH >>>mixed by David Bendeth an Slammed By Ted Jensen lol

 

Last edited: May 4, 2017

There are bass freqs, because they were added in studio. Live they use backing bass tracks (with some synths on top of that)

In most cases, 8-string (or 7-string tuned really, really low) djent bands tune the bass up rather than down, thus having it in the same octave as guitars. In standard tuning, it'll be F#1, that is around 46hz, which is bearable for most audio systems. Yet they'll still sound like bass and guitar, because the most important harmonics of both instruments are in totally different registers, despite being tuned to the same note. Add studio magic and it's no problem. Meshuggah tune like that and oh boy are they heavy (well, they're pioneers of djent).

Or just use midi bass, like modo or trillian

 

Last edited: May 4, 2017

I only skimmed this thread, but I'll reiterate a lot of what has already been said and maybe add some omitted things.

High-gain provides limiting and adds harmonics. This is why power chords (root and 5th) are so heavily featured in metal, as the extreme gain obscures the nuances of a lot of other chords. Distortion and overdrive (tubescreamer) pedals, hot-rodded amps and high-output passive (or active) pickups are all ways to achieve this face-melting level of gain. This shouldn't be confused with the loudness of the amplifiers used, as power amps provide a primarily clean signal amplification simply to make things louder (although they do play a minimal to moderate role in signal breakup) whereas preamps and pedals in metal are the primary means to dirty up the signal itself.

Palm muting. This adds a percussive element and a lot of beefiness and bass which wouldn't otherwise be present when picking the strings in a traditional manner. As this sounds more powerful on the thickest strings, you'll see the E and A strings used very heavily.

Double/triple/quad tracking. Almost every metal album you hear will feature the same parts manually played over the top of themselves. This thickens the tone and adds slight variances which create a natural chorus effect, and frequently these stacked tracks are EQ'd or amped differently which creates a blended tone not otherwise possible with a single performance.

Drop tuning and/or heavy gauge strings and baritone or 7/8 strings guitars. This brings the guitar down into the bass guitar end of the spectrum which makes it sound more powerful. Again, the lowest tuned and thickest strings provide a lot more energy than the highest strings, so that's why players frequently neglect the thinnest strings.

And yes, as correctly mentioned, the bass guitar quite often directly mirrors the rhythm guitar in metal, so the guitars will seamlessly blend and seem more powerful than they otherwise would by themselves -- depending on the style and the intended effect, of course. Some bands use the guitar as more a melodic, voice-like and thinner instrument and have the bass play the prominent rhythm role, but when both guitar(usually multiple tracks or performers) and bass are used in unison to fulfill the rhythm role, all those layers and high-gain tones create a gigantic wall-of-sound.

 

Last edited: May 4, 2017