Try and save up and get you an SSL X rack module. I've seen these in action, referenced on multiple monitors and PAs. Well worth the investment.

 

That's because you're using the wrong tools, also what kind of AD convertor unit are you running? Personally I'd recommend using a compressor on the master buss after you achieve what you feel is a balanced mix.

 

Don't use any hardware on the master yet. I finish my mix and get everything balanced and currently I"m using Ozone7 for spreading, eq, and exciter and then a subtle compression with Digital Slates compressor and a little tape saturation. That's what I did for this latest track.So everything balanced and mixed, then once that's done I do the master effects.

 

I know this goes in the other direction

But knowing you have a tight budget and also make EDM

Try Sonoris plugs for mastering...

Really awsome stuff for plugins that are real nice

http://www.sonorissoftware.com/catalog/plugins-c-22.html?osCsid=3a0f0eb783aa8ad09627b17945a5f7e4

Their eq's and multiband compressor and compressor are really smoothe and pumping

Enjoy

 

I have never heard such misinformation and DBMUZIK leads the pack. I am a serious mixer and mix into my mastering chain from the very first note. If you are going to pull together a mix in 5 hours before your ears get screwed you have to do this. Its not easy but mixing is not.
If you want to check out some of my mixes go to http://spencerlee.audio and if you have no experience and don't know what you are talking about don't make a comment. I have hundreds of great videos on my site by "The Experts" follow them not beginners on audiosex.
Spencer

 

Agree with @spencer26 and @Jaymz. Sorry @dbmuzik but you are 100% wrong in your information. And stating it in such an arrogant and aggressive manner as if to appear "correct" needs to be addressed/debunked.

It's clear that as you lectured others, like JAYMZ on how to do things right, you yourself lack the knowledge or experience to know what you are talking about. That is clear from your words against mixing into a bus comp, the way you phrased it and the assumptions you made as to why/what we are doing when we do this. I think no matter the genre, the vast majority of pro mixers and semi pro mixers alike, IF they are going to be using ANY compression on the mix bus (or if they have to get a more accurate final mix result BEFORE handing it off to a master engineer who could f-k things up if he has to compress it after the fact) then they put that SSL bus comp (or whatever choice) on the bus pretty early on *AND MIX INTO IT*.

This is completely different from mixing into:

A Limiter
An Eq
Any kind of "mastering" FX (subtle tonal shaping or fixing).

And you don't seem to be able to grasp that.

Rarely do people set up their bus comp to be giving massive GR then mix into it, it just needs to be on there, with a very low GR (if any) while you get your rough balance because it affects EQ too (but this is a good thing and the whole reason anyone wants to strap these things over the bus to start with - tone and response!). As the mix takes shape, when you are ready to mix properly, you can set the GR to -2db or so (no more than 3/4 though) and then every thing you do on busses/individual channels will take this into account. There is no 'messing up the sound' THAT will happen if you mix perfectly first THEN strap it on, as your bad bad advice gave.

You are not fighting the bus comp by mixing into it, you are working WITH IT in harmony, from as early a stage as possible, to reach a final result, a GLUING of the mix and cohesive vibe. That absolutely will not be achieved if you stick it on after mixing OR if you leave it to the ME to do. ME's tend to do corrective or slightly enhancing compression only when they must, same with EQ. The less you have the ME (or yourself if you are self mastering) do, the better the result, everything you have to add at the mastering stage is a compromise vs getting it right further down the chain.

Also you can't just skip bus compression if that is the sound you need because individuall compressing sub busses or channels won't give you the same "glue" at all. You are woefully misinformed on this issue and I think you should tone your arrogance down a notch if you are going to go around preaching (incorrect) information to people.

You have TWO good choices, and this is what "pros" will do (not what you advise)

1. IF you know you want the effect of a mix bus compression on your song, then you put it on early and mix into.

2. You don't use a bus compressor at all, and the ME doesn't strap one either for glue/feel (only as he feels he needs to help any issues). An ME is not a mixer.

What the Mastering guy will do with a compressor is entirely unrelated to the vibe/feel of "bus compression" in the context of a mix. So the above are your only two valid choices if you want to have a mix that is "mastering ready".

It is up to the mixer to get that sound, vibe, punch etc and he must use what he must use, and if that means mix bus comp, then you mix into that mofo asap not afterwards (it will throw off everything you've done good in a mix if you add it after - from eq to balance to channel relationship). It's the worst advice you could give someone sorry.

As Jay said, please go learn a bit more yourself before lecturing others, especially as you seem to be confused as to what/why we use mix bus compression (you appear to think it's being used as some kind of 'finalizing'/limiting process or w/e based on your words about how it will ruin a mix if you mix into it. MB compression has NOTHING to do with getting RMS levels up, nothing at all, most people don't even bother using the make up gain (they leave that for mastering) it's there just to glue and add the subtle but important MIX VIBE. Nothing at all to do with over-processing or maxing out your mix buss. Its as if the majority of records from the past 4 decades weren't mixed on SSL boards with the bus comp engaged 99% of the time, in your parallel universe. ;)

A good mix, delivered to an ME should need very little work on the overal feel/glue/vibe, that must fall to the mixer, that must include mix bus compression IF you are going to want it in the end anyway.

Limiting is the stage you leave till you have a finished mix, limiting is NOT mix bus compression. Mix bus compression is a very subtle thing unless you are making it drastically pump for dance music (even then - MIX is where you do that not strapped on afterwards like an amateur). You'll typically have very low GR, a subtle but desirable glue, and perhaps a bit of depth/weight/punch added. Mixing into such a "subtle but needed" process is the way to go, as you then achieve that 'best mix' WITH the final result you sought, not leaving it for some mythical future process where your lifeless, wimpy mix is somehow magically transformed by an ME.

They do say the loudest people are often the most uninformed and in this thread DBMuzic wins that prize.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2016

You see? THIS post right here shows WHY you are not qualified to even comment on this situation. You can't seem to disassociate mix bus compression from mastering of any kind. NOBODY is mastering as they mix by using mix bus compression .

Your other comment about "you shouldn't be clipping/hitting the red or going too high on the mix bus" well THAT is obvious, and we are not, and that's NOT what mix bus compression is about or does (in fact it can and often does REDUCE your peaks on the mix bus if you don't gain up again, which doesn't matter at all as it'll get gained up later in mastering). So saying that, it looks like you also think people are slamming these comps into the red on the mix bus? Nobody said that, nobody does that, the levels are basically the same before and after the bus comp, you should still have plenty of headroom (6db for example). It is simply NOT about raising levels. In fact no compressor used within mixing (on individual tracks) is about raising PEAK levels (RMS yes -sometimes) because you should be doing proper gain staging before/after each process (Eq/comp) so that you continually level the gain back to the input gain - SAME on the mix buss. Can you accept that? accept you are wrong? I doubt it.

You also don't seem to know what mastering is meant to be let alone the whole mixing thing! Mastering could be something as simple as trimming the tracks for CD for example, it doesn't HAVE to mean anything involving compression, or even EQ (though often is about some broad eq in a better room with a new set of ears). You seem to think you can mix something as good as you can then hand that off to an ME to transform it magically into an absolute banger of a track lol. NO that stops with the mix engineer. He gets it as close as possible to how it needs to sound, the ME merely ties up loose ends and maybe subtley enhances, bus compression that involves gluing or track relationship can not and should not be done by the Mastering guy.

Mix bus comp/glue is NOT mastering. Never was, never will be. Go back to school yourself bud.

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2016

How do you know the threshold and other values of the compressor if you put it so early and you're still adding/removing stuff? You keep changing it as the mixing proceeds, right? Or you try to keep it at a level and mix around it?

 

I have been mixing records for 50 years. Now I am mixing in the box. I have my mastering chain on at all times from the start of the mix. But I am not trying to get max level till the end of the mix. Then I adjust the mix bus to get the best level out of it keeping it inside -7.4 LUFS.
It works for me and all my clients. Go to my website spencerlee.audio click on play current mixes and tell me they suck.
Spencer

 

Last edited: Sep 16, 2016

No, you set your other values (ratio/release/attack etc) as per your own experience or 'standard' settings for the job. Then you leave them (though you can mess around with them and be flexible later on so long as you know what you are doing and can compensate for it elsewhere). Threshold WILL change as you bring your mix together of course, because you'll change levels on sub busses for example BUT as others said, if you get your rough mix balance up and running fast, then you'll not need to chance much, just a small change on the threshold here and there to keep your required target Gain reduction (say -2db). An SSL style comp is good for this as its such a simple compressor you can basically set and forget all of the settings except the threshold and just adjust that to reach 2-4 gr as needed. The point of having it on early isn't that everything is set in stone, it's so that every thing you do is already being considered by the comp, tonally, punch, response etc. This will stop you over compressing earlier in the chain sometimes on other channels.

In fact many people now work back from the mix bus, then to group/busses, then to individual channels. But this is down to taste. Whatever works, works. But don't make a "perfect" mix THEN stick a bus comp on (nor have an Mastering engineer stick it on) afterwards as it'll mess your balance and other things up. Get it on the bus asap, mild settings, a target GR in mind and mix into it. Simple.

 

Yeah I agreed with you above. DBmusik is way off base with his 'advice'.

 

Elysia Alpha Compressor.

 

For the sake of the Original post looking for that analog sound in the genre of House.

I bet if you asked everyone in the club the question of Analog or Digital compressor on master? 98 % wouldn't have a clue what you're on about and would just give you a blank stare.

I'm still useless when it comes to the subject of compression and pretty much mastering in general. It's a rough setup that I play around with until I think it sounds right. Still in the two years I've had a laptop I've had tracks signed albeit to small labels. I just try and make tunes. Infact I've found the more I've tried to get involved in the so called mastering process the slower my rate of completing tracks has become. It's like it's absorbed the creative process (of what little there is)!

Whether I'm in a club in Ibiza or at Egg in London. When what I consider a decent tune is dropped. I don't at any point waste a second wondering if the bass line is a plug in or hardware. And It doesn't occur to me once what mastering chain has been used. A tune is a tune. Simple. I'd say almost everyone other than the producer themselves is the same.

Sorry just my two pence worth. It seems everyone is after the analog sound whatever that is. Like it's some cool word now. When most of the clubbing public wouldn't have a clue anyway.

 

I kinda agree with your whole point.

But after some time, I realized that older tracks made with analog gear had a different sound, space, warmth, or whatever the hell people want to call it (of course, everybody calls it different because it's more of a "you can feel it" rather than you hear it). Does this mean digital is bad? No obviously, I like a lot of stuff made with modern techniques.
Eventually I came to the conclusion and surrendered to the fact that: yes, using real stuff makes your track sounds a little bit different. (Different, not better!) I honestly don't know what it is. Might be the whole process, might be the gears used, might be the mixing console, might be their techniques, whatever, I just know that a lot of older songs have a slightly different sound to them.

Also my 2c, because I'm no engineer or super producer.

 

I get what you're saying. I actually have massive, massive respect to those who made quality tunes in a world before Ableton etc. For me the older stuff sounds older. And again a tune is a tune regardless of equipment used and year of production etc.

I just don't think it's worth getting too hung up on the whole analog thing.

A punter in a club(for which these tunes are made for) is going to be far more concerned about the quality of pills in their pocket than the compressor used on master bus. A sad but factual truth.

 

The answer is a VU meter set to read 0 at -18dBFS.

Ideally, you set up the input gain in the two-bus compressor to read 0 on the VU meter with the mixer zeroed. As you progress around your mix and add/remove plugins, you verify your gain staging for your master bus to keep reading 0 most of the time. For instance, if you add a plugin and the VU meter starts to peak like hell, you know you have to lower the input of said plugin. You could peak up a bit higher than 0, but you should be around that figure most of the time and never allow the "needle" to be buried to the right.

it's hard to tell what it is, but the noise, harmonics, and wow/flutter added randomly makes a track sound pleasantly different than when it is clinically clean. You're right. It's hard to tell but easy to feel.

 

I'm currently really satisfied with my latest mixes and mastering. There are always little flaws, but I'm certainly getting the sound I'm after now and that organic acoustic feel that I was originally after. I eq, compress, limit in the mix and then I find a gentle compressing glue with gentle limiting and widening does the trick for the final master, with a semi transparent tape saturation.

Anyways, thanks for all the info guys. You all had very good information to lend me! Although, conflicting in some regards! As for my latest track, it hits the spot for me, although I think I may have applied just a little too much kick, but that is my only complaint.

 

sounds good bro! if what you apply to your mix sets good with your ears thats all that matters ;) always gona be somone that likes it and will always be somone who dont haha.... its what makes the world turn man \m/ keep Rockin bro!

 

Acustica Audio "Sand", coming out soon. SSL 4k and 5k channel strip emulation with 3 different buss comp variants.

 

You wanted to get busy talking about what "seems" to be rather than what "is". Your implementation of all caps shows where your head is at since you want to use ones words in text to determine the volume level in which someone is talking. It is you who is the loudest one in the room. The bottom line is I do not believe it is wise to place a compressor on the master channel at the beginning of the mixing stage. That is what those persons I responded to were suggesting. It's not the first time I've heard people suggest it to others. And I personally don't recommend it because it constitutes as a global loss of headroom from the start. A global attenuation factor applied during the mixing stage is an ever changing sum. Therefore you cannot apply changes to any individual track without it also changing the proportion of every other track in the mix if they are all under global compression. Mixing this way only leaves people with what they claim to be happy with in the end. There's no possible way to argue that mixing all tracks into a global compressor doesn't rid the engineer of their freedom to be truly precise. I want to retain the principle of dynamic control over all the tracks in my mix independently. That is why I prefer to mix and have all tracks proportioned how I want them and apply any global compression afterwards.