You mean major and minor scales or similar ones are natural to the ears and others unnatural? 12-tone scale was made only for making transition between keys and has no pleasing use?

 

Foster.

 

When the phrase "non-diatonic" is used, it means that most of the music is diatonic (7 notes) and only some parts of the music is non-diatonic. Most of my question is, how does the producer use 12 notes today?

 

What makes 12-note music noncommercial? Why is 7-note music commercializable and 12-note music is not?

 

These are fine questions. Good luck as you seek to answer them.

 

Oops, misread.

This is not true in two respects.

1. Only a very small part of jazz music was or is chromatic. The vast majority is in many ways not even particularly exceptional compared to popular music produced today. A large part of the jazz recorded at that time is primarily danceable. Or very playful, but adheres to (today) common rules of musical modulation. But true chromaticism was rare even then and belonged to the aventgarde.
   
2. The absence of chromaticism in popular music is not the fault of the producers, but of the consumers. What sells is what prevails. And the average music consumer often has little interest in chromatic music. That was the case in the past and it is the same today.

There is a lot of modern music in chromatic key. But not in popular music. You will find it mainly in scores. Especially in genre scores. Horror for example. Or science fiction.

 

Last edited: Oct 12, 2023

You mean there is no chance to popularize 12-note music ever?

 

What exactly do you mean by 12-note music? All western music is based on 12 notes. In other parts of the world, there are many more.

Chromatic does not mean that all 12 notes are played, but that what is played cannot be mathematically assigned to any of the other keys. Chromaticism is not something most people want to hear. It is too unpredictable for them, so they can't whistle along.

 

Music is made for ears of the listeners, not their larynges, mouths and lips to whistle along.
Why should music be predictable for the listener? Music, like a movie, is attractive when many of the events of the movie are not predictable in advance.

 

Tell it to the box office! If nothing is predictable, the audience's expectations will not be met and the audience will feel uncomfortable and confused. It's called a flop! Both music and movies are about playing with the expectations of the audience. On the one hand to fulfill the expectations and on the other hand to surprise them here and there with something unexpected. If the consumer can't hold on to anything familiar, it's provocative niche, made for a niche audience that deliberately wants to be provoked with the unexpected.

Edit:
The audience would expect a movie to have a plot that they can follow. And that there is dialog. Instead, if you see the back of a head on the screen for 180 minutes in absolute silence, without anything exciting happening, most people will leave the theater confused and annoyed. It may fit into the context of an art film festival, but it is not mainstream compliant.

 

Last edited: Oct 13, 2023

Spoiler-Foster alert

 

playing outside of the key signature you are in creates dissonance by definition. you might argue with the veracity of how that is defined but I personally wouldnt be convinced by such an argument. I listened to some of the 12 note examples in the wikipedia article listed in one of the comments and all of them sounded dissonant and lacking melodic direction. whether they were necessarily intended to be comprehensive arrangements is unclear but what was there was clearly dissonant​

 

Last edited: Oct 13, 2023

?

 

You would guess someone so interested in the nuances of 12 notes would know to alter their distinctive, pedantic writing style for each new trolling alias to avoid quick waste of yet another username.

 

the idea there is no modern use of chromatic scaling or whatever you want to call it - using all 12 notes - in commercial music is not accurate. its done in popular genres of metal where dissonance is deployed competently in non melodic contexts like breakdowns and other non melodic devices. and thousands people pay to see these bands. that is one example but if you change keys enough times you can achieve hitting all 12 notes easily. Disney scores for instance like to change keys and are commercially successful. I don't know of any scores that necessarily hit every note as I have never counted them but plenty of them hit more than 7 just by virtue of knowing they are changing keys and spending time playing in those key signatures before moving on

 

"One chord is fine. Two chords is pushing it. Three chords and you're into jazz." -Lou Reed

That aside, you seem to have the intuition that: "Playing with 12-tone scale can be pleasant and even mainstream" So why don't try it? Nothing in art is wrote in stone, your own intuition could make go further than any advice or theory.

 

I don't mean switching between keys. What I mean is to use the chromatic scale from the beginning of the music to the end without worrying about whether the note we are using is in a particular key or not.
Metal music is not my intention. Why do we have to express all the tender human feelings diatonically? Scenes of love, affection, jealousy, violence, humanity, education, fear, etc. can also be expressed chromatically.

 

I think this sentence has been one of the biggest mistakes in the history of music.

I want to know how.

 

if you play outside of your key signature you have to use dissonance. if you want it to be competent music you have to use dissonance competently. theres no way around it

 

Oddly enough I got into a discussion almost exactly like this trying to make an architect explain to me why you generally don't see a house with no right angles in it. When he explained that feasibly, you could do that but it will be an awfully weird house I berated him with useless questions on how to build one even though I had no intention of actually building one until he quit talking to me.