What an inspired choice to highlight.
Thanks Lenny; I doubt if there is a simpler example of just a single major triad sounding absolutely NOT happy
(unless someone thinks this is an ecstatic celebration of our slain rising to valhalla or some other loony place in the clouds)

I just tried a quick and really simple experiment,
My experiments were in C, so the lonely trumpet melody is all C, E, G,
I added a droning bass french horn.

[1] The first time I added a root C.
Of course it works; it did seem to reinforce the solemn feel.
But it still sounds naff compared to just the lonely trumpet.

[2] The second time I added a root A.
This was deliberately trying to force the C, E, G melody to be the upper notes in an Amin7 chord.
I just wanted to see if that ultra simple shove into a minor context would make it sound sadder.
It just sounded totally crap!

 

A notable psychologist and psychiatrist said on youtube that the greatest mistake they made was disclosing to the world the labels they place on people to aid them assisting people in need because unqualified laymen think they are smart enough to diagnose others, yet more often than not while pointing, those laymen have three fingers pointing back.

 

What you may take as "shortcuts", I for one may as "perspectives" instead, specially in the musical realm, where nothing is absolute but relative to something else and profoundly subjective. These people you've referred to, you mean music teachers or musicians/composers as well? If so, the answer to that would be very long and off point of interest here.
Apparently you tend to take music as some sort of science, nonetheless realizing that such perspective led you to nowhere but to hit a wall very hard. There is science involved indeed, but is not music, it's physics, which is not a common vehicle through which you may convey your emotions, which are metaphysical.
So, if you had the chance to sit by Chopin, Mahler, Stravinsky, or any other figure you may highly regard, and access their insights over musical concepts within 24h (presuming that to be feasible and any of them willingly to be as didactical as they could), do you really think you'd be able to absorb them fully so you could put it to work afterwards?
Start by answering to yourself this one simple question: Why are there 12 pitches? - hint: they were arbitrarily chosen

 

Differently, allow me propose you to properly answer the thread's author questions in the first place, instead of looking for engaging into an ego battle. He hasn't manifested himself about my offering yet. Would like to friendly trade some musical insights with me? If so, please open a new thread of your choice - any topics. Best regards.

 

I spoke to him directly in a PM. Perhaps asking questions if I had, and not assuming an ego battle but instead, dispelling disinformation may have been more adroit as it is to anyone who is fully qualified in their discipline. Best regards.

 

Were you able to satisfactorily clarify his questions through the exchanged PM? Would you care sharing the outcome? Has this thread can be ended then? If addressing dispelling misinformation is your boat, I'm your sailor. My offering still stands, for him and for you, until otherwise advised. Best regards.

 

and your offer is? Putting your music where your mouth is? Composing or orchestrating cold in under 15 mins and putting it up? discussing the importance of melody and voice leading from the melody? Discussing with him what the real point is in composing any music?
By all means... I cannot wait...go for it. Do not forget to put your music up as it seems it is not my ego that is bruised and I cannot wait to be dazzled by your expertise....and if you can not then that not only speaks for itself, it screams... Best regards.

 

Any topics?? GREAT!!! Here is a TINY start and this does not scratch the surface... dodecaphonic writing, asymmetrical writing, chromatic planing, multiple counterpoint using both consequent and non-consequent phrasings, double counterpoint for a minimum of four instruments, the differences and similarities between a hemiola and polyrhythmic writing.... I can keep going... pick one or all or any. because it seems important to you to discuss it you start a thread.. Go for it!!! Best regards.

 

My dear, you sound like I've hurt your feelings or offended you somehow and due to such, you've been looking for to fiercely expose me as some sort fraud and of blabbermouth. As far as I can tell, the thread's subject is about someone struggling with basic concepts (major/minor scales).
Do everyone and yourself a favor: please stop fostering this immature "duel" posture. That only exposes your inscurities, contradicts your previous statements and, more importantly, is off-topic and doesn't help anyone.
As said, I can pleasantly discuss with you whatever music-oriented topic you might bring about, in another thread.
Just let me know. Best regards.

PS.: Would care straight answering the questions I've done to you in the last post?

 

First I am not your dear. second you could not hurt my feelings if you tried, what you have posted on this site so far shows you are barely Bachelor level if that. I have answered your questions.
You asked for topics and to pick any and I did and its seems you have balked. I gave them to you. By all means You BOASTED that you can teach me and the author do it please or STFU. I can put my music where my mouth is you obviously seem to fall short. A good teacher can put the music where their mouth is and that's known worldwide. Please spout your "I can teach all of you" to people who are not laughing young man.
Thank you

 

Concisely answering, all the above mentioned techniques serve different aesthetic purposes in a composition. Tools (labor intensive ones I may add), like many others, which you may or may not resort to in order to convey context to a passage, movement, or whatever. Are you in any form implying that such techniques are quitessential to a great piece? Aesthetics is a component, not the whole. Pick one and open up a new thread. Best regards.

 

Concisely answering you can compose an entire tune using one technique polyrhtymically a 7 over 3 but you said A NEW THREAD. This is off-topic. Please start a new thread and I am happy to discuss it further. I have pieces that have those techniques and in some they are quintessential, yes. @No Avenger - can you move this part to a new thread as it's off-topic and while I certainly am responsible for answering his topic request, it's off-topic.
@Freetobestolen - start a thread if it's important to you and yes I can put my own music with real people playing some of the above and compositions based on some of the mentioned concepts. I barely scratched the surface which I clearly said.. Anyone can quote text books. I put it into practice. I look forward to hearing your music and if you do not, I will write you off like MMJ as a bad practitioner whose knowledge is limited to what they read and absorbed but no skills to put it into practice.

 

Being rude as such, makes it difficult to have you as a dear one, but I insist. About my "degree" you are mistaken 720°. You haven't aswered my questions.
About your music, thanks for sharing your own thoughts about it, good for you and I wish you great digressing times once exerpting them.
I've stepped in here in order to possibly offer help to someones, once the author is not alone in his struggle and I have, like everyone else, been there likewise.
Let me remind you once more that you're still off-topic and keep insisting on doing so. Give some space to the thread's author to continue and serve its purpose properly.
Good luck.

 

I think you are far too generous with your "what they absorbed" comment
and your "no skills" comment does miss something important.

@Freetobestolen obviously does have skills - a well oiled troll does know how to bluster and brag and provoke,
while all the time saying absolutely nothing of any value.
That craft must surely require a perverse devotion and a lot of practice.

In an earlier comment I quoted some of the trolling garbage from Freetobestolen and made this observation...
> So, another one of those place your bets situations.
> I'll gamble early on... One familiar troll firing on both barrels

I reckon the evidence is in - every one of his subsequent posts is pure troll-speak - pure provocation and totally vaccuous
If he's not actually Foster then he is surely Foster's nemesis.

At least half of my bet is now looking secure - and the wheel is still spinning.

 

I did actually but I realised you do not listen and hear what you wish and owned no responsibility of your own for going off-topic. I was not the one who boasted they can teach everyone here, I was not the one who said to pick any topic. But I did own that I made the mistake of answering and I did answer the thread author. As for sharing personal messaging, so far you have boasted for all to see and any decent musician I have met in my entire career can back up their knowledge with audio. Please assault someone's senses who does not know any better.
The mere fact you own no responsibility for any of your actions or statements, tells me immediately what kind of musician you are NOT. Goodbye.

 

I am happy to be proven wrong and gave the opportunity to put his music where his mouth is. And the result is?? NADA.
However, he was right on one thing only, we both went off-topic even if he did not own his contribution to it.

 

Forget all this doo dah music theory and go buy Captain Chords

 

To FrankWhite23

Basics on the diatonic system ( 12 pitches tonalities )

Achieved by extrapolating the subdivision of an octave into "perfect" 5th intervals (most sympathetic/consonant interval to a chosen Tonic/reference pitch, other than its own 8va), resulting in 12 proportionally spaced pitches fitted within an octave (tempered tunning - ratio: square root of 2).

In comparison to the other 2 known possible subdivisions (symmetrical) of an octave:

- in Major 3rds : results in 3 primary pitches, and subsequently into 6 if once more subdivided, generating what came to be known as the whole-tone scale. In its harmonized form, can be initially interpreted as a stack of 3 augmented triads ( R-3-#5 )

- in minor 3rds : results in 4 primary pitches, and subsequently into 8 if once more subdivided, generating what came to be known as the whole-half and half-whole diminished scales. In its harmonized form, can be initially interpreted as a stack of 2 diminished tetrads ( R-b3-b5-bb7 )

The Major Scale

Features the maximum possible number of stacked perfect 5ths within an octave, avoiding forming a tritone interval against the Tonic (key tonal centre) and chromaticisms, resulting in 7 pitches.

eg.: F - C - G - D - A - E - B

G = 5th above the Tonic (root)
F = 5th below the 8va

Organizing the pitches from the Tonic towards its 8va (crescent, diatonic order): C - D - E - F - G - A - B [ R-2-3-4-5-6-M7 ]

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2021

To FrankWhite23

Scale harmonization basics: conventionally is done in 3rds, from every scale pitch onwards, minimally comprised of R-3-5, thus forming triads.

C Major scale - C - D - E - F - G - A - B

Harmonized triads: I - C E G / II - D F A / III - E G B / IV - F A C / V - G B D / VI - A C E / VII - B D F

I, IV, V = Major triads ( R 3 5 )
II, III, VI = minor triads ( R b3 5 )
VII = diminished triad ( R b3 b5 )


Establishing a Major tonal center:

In its most simple form, is comprised of 3 Major triads a 5th apart, in a row as such -> F - C - G

In such configuration, each triad end up receiving an harmonic function, being C triad the tonal centre, F triad its subdominant, and G triad its Dominant.

What comes into play henceforth is replacing these Major triads by their relative and substitute minor triads, in order to create more complex/rich harmonic movements, where a possible melody can be layered on the top and contrast it.

F triad - relative minor triad Dm / substitute minor triad Am
C triad - relative minor triad Am / substitute minor triad Em
G triad - relative minor triad Em / substitute minor triad Bdim or Bm

eg.: II - V - I, where II is the relative minor from IV ( basic harmonic cell )

Complementary cell: IV - VII - III is commonly infused as rootless II min7(9) - V 7(9) - I M7(9)

Are you with me, or should I step back?

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2021

To FrankWhite23

I personnaly never listened to any composition/tune from the artist you've mentioned: Kanye West.
Could you reference me one (more than one it would be better), so I can start grasping what is your musical pursue before continuing?
More often than not, modern music tends to resort to add 9, add 11 and "sus" chords in order to soften the dullness of plain major triads in such contexts.

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2021