LUFS + Wave - Visual Mixing question

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by curtified, Jan 17, 2021.

  1. curtified

    curtified Platinum Record

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    This is a weird question. But maybe someone can help.

    I'm using Melda's MMultiAnalyzer to see the waves and where my LUFS is at in my sub mixes. Does anyone know What tool I could use to bring down the LUFS (the solid line in the pic below) of a track while keeping the wave hitting at the same height?

    I'm sure I will get some responses below like "use your ears not your eyes". That isn't helping me with what I'm trying to achieve.

    I've tried limiting, clipping, saturation, and compression but all of these moves the LUFS line a little bit while the wave gets smaller.

    Does this analyzer show the waves in RMS but the LUFS as a line?

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

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    Upward Compression / Parallel Compression
     
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  4. Lieglein

    Lieglein Platinum Record

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    Sure. Your fader. You can simply move it downwards and your lufs will go down. If you then zoom into your wave it's still as big as before. :dunno:

    How do you want to achieve something with a tool on which you do not even know what it shows you? :unsure:


    So. You simply can not just use "a tool" which does everything for you. Making music is not painting by numbers.
     
  5. No Avenger

    No Avenger Moderator Staff Member

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    Since LUFS is a negative value, when you say you want to bring down the LUFS, are talking about -10LUFS down to e. g. -14LUFS?

    And when you say 'solid line', I see more than one. Do you mean the pink top line?

    And what exactly do you want to achieve sonically?

    EDIT:
    Ah, you want to make it louder (this is called bringing the LUFS up). This should work perfectly fine with a limiter plus gain makeup. If peak in = peak out the wave still has the same height.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  6. Jim Von Gucci

    Jim Von Gucci Kapellmeister

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    Hi, just tried it with the mmultianalyzer your using.
    Don't think you can as they are both related. Even if you bring the wave down and saturate it it's still going to take the "LUF line" up no matter what. More so on bass.
    But make sure the analyzer is last in chain on all your channels and in momentary so you can see the effect of what you are doing.
     
  7. Jim Von Gucci

    Jim Von Gucci Kapellmeister

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    I've got it on my master with a limiter before getting 8 LUFS and another meter before it also getting the same LUFS but on the mmultimeter it's hovering around the top 18LU.
    What is LU? Maybe it's not even LUFS on that meter.
     
  8. curtified

    curtified Platinum Record

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    Thank you for opening the plug and trying! It's a weird OCD thing for me. I'm trying to figure out what the LU line it's doing in conjunction with the wave. I want to clip my wave but have the loudness of my track hit the same level as the rest of the other tracks displayed.

    You could be right LU might not even be LUFS. I have short term selected as you can see in the window.

    It sounds good but the LU says my sub is way louder in metering.
     
  9. curtified

    curtified Platinum Record

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    I know this is a confusing thread as it is confusing for me to achieve what I want from the plug
     
  10. Jim Von Gucci

    Jim Von Gucci Kapellmeister

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    You might want to read the manual or I would ignore it.
    You don't want your sub, bass level loudness the same as other tracks though so wouldn't worry about it.
     
  11. TaxiDriver

    TaxiDriver Platinum Record

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    AFAIK
    LUFS - loudness units (relative to) full scale
    LU - loudness units

    So one could say: the difference between -10 LUFS and -14 LUFS is 4 LU.

    In most cases you just want to know LUFS overall (over your entire program, e.g. entire piece of music incl. silence), also called LUFS "integrated", to comply to certain standard. LUFS "short-term" (usually over 3 seconds) that you have engaged is there just for informative purposes and will never show you the whole picture.

    To me it is still not entirely clear what are you trying to achieve. Like the first Q No Avenger asked.. :dunno:
     
  12. Jim Von Gucci

    Jim Von Gucci Kapellmeister

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    In the meter they are using they are wanting to make the LU line go down but keep the level of the wave the same height because they were wanting the wave shapes and the LU lines the same height...
    Prob not how it works so need to read the manual.
     
  13. Sinus Well

    Sinus Well Audiosexual

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    I find your question a bit confusing and don't really understand what you are trying to achieve. To me it sounds like you want to make the track sound louder without affecting your peaks. In this case: Upward Compression.
    If you want to make the track quieter, then just pull down the fader.
    And if you want the peaks in the FS level to remain untouched while you make the track sound quieter, then use a Downward Expander... or better: use 2 or 3 in a row to expand more transparently.

    If you want to learn something about the loudness standard, you will find it here:
    EBU R128
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  14. Obineg

    Obineg Kapellmeister

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    first answer was already correct; dynamic expansion.

    but second question... treating LUFs independent from power... is hard to realize and should not be something you need.
     
  15. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    First, there is no LUFS target.

    If you want to reduce the loudness, you turn down the volume.
    If you want to increase DR you can add an expander or transient designer.
    If you want to control the peaks, add limiters/clippers (preferably several, doing little than one doing a lot).
    If you want to keep the peaks wild and untamed, yet have increased overall loudness, then look into upward compression/parallel compression.

    When you add saturation, compression, etc you are doing the contrary to what you are wanting to do (if I understand you correctly). Then you are decreasing LU/DR value.

    It just seems to me you need to read up on dynamic range (DR), loudness, loudness normalization, intersample peaks (ISP), etc. This could get you started:
    https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/ex...d-techniques-for-improving-dynamic-range.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  16. M McB

    M McB Noisemaker

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    OP look at xfer OTT
     
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