LUFS (True Peak -2) + (LKFS -14dbs) is this right?

Discussion in 'Mixing and Mastering' started by lasteno, Aug 12, 2019.

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  1. lasteno

    lasteno Producer

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    what the best way to deliver your master for all the web stores ?
    I know some use -16 some -12 some -14.. and the true peak how should it be ?
    to -1 or -2?
    I'm trying to avoid Penalties.. by services..
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  3. lasteno

    lasteno Producer

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  4. Mock

    Mock Noisemaker

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    In our Country, the broadcast law is -24 LUFS (or LKFS) +- 2dB.

    If the mixer can't fix on that standard, he can get penalties...

    And Truepeak is -1 dB.
     
  5. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Firstly, I find the title pretty confusing. I guess I know what you mean, but... Ok, nevermind.

    LUFS = LKFS.

    I never heard of -2dB TP and can only agree with @Mock, it's -1.

    The thing with the best LUFS value is, there's no law. On principle every store or platform can choose whatever they want and change it anytime in any direction. And only a few really measure LUFS (they use different algos, but keep them secret, mainly). So much for the books.

    Atm, one or two aim for -16LUFS, almost the complete rest for -14LUFS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  6. lasteno

    lasteno Producer

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    thanks for the info I am very confused about LKFS ...I am sorry about the title..
     
  7. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    First, mix and master at whatever loudness your music sounds good at. May it be -14, -12, -9 or -5LUFS.
    YOU decide what loudness YOUR (or your client's) track should be. All genres have different preferences, loudness, dynamic progression and overall dynamic range. An evolving folk song will have more dynamics and dynamic progression than a dubstep track.

    Loudness normalization on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, Tidal, etc is just a way to make sure everything stays within the same loudness. They reduce the volume on loud material so that it comes down to comfortable level so that you don't have to reach for the volume all the time.

    Upload your master with peaks at -2dBTP (true peak). This is suggested by Spotify and is a good measure to go by. Some MEs settle for -1dBTP. The reason for this is that the conversion from lossless to lossy will add additional "volume", AKA ISP (instersample peaks), which might make your non-clipped audio to clip and distort. This depends on the material of your audio (content dependant).

    You CAN master to desired loudness, and THEN lower the volume so that you reach the desired -14LUFS (Spotify) or -13LUFS (YouTube) loudness. But IMO that is a bit counter-intuitive. But you can do it if you want to avoid loudness penalty (which is just a reduction in volume).

    If your aim is primarily Spotify: Use the RePlayGain algorithm in Nugen MasterCheck plugin, because that is the algorithm that Spotify uses.
    Youlean Loudness Meter 2 also has Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, Tidal, etc.

    https://nugenaudio.com/mastercheck/
    https://youlean.co/youlean-loudness-meter/ (there is a free version)
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  8. PlzNo

    PlzNo Ultrasonic

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    You can try Loudness Penalty: Analyzer to figure out a good range for loudness.
    If you are in doubt, just mix it differently for different platforms. :rofl:
     
  9. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    That's an oxymoron. :winker:

    Interesting, so they already changed it?
     
  10. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    Yes. :) All music has different loudness. EDM has high loudness. Classical has low loudness. Just check Skrillex latest uploads on YouTube where he shows his master at -5LUFS. Not mastered yet, I know.
    So yeah, "good" is subjective and relative. There is no right or wrong.

    Yes, Spotify has changed peak to -2dBTP for material over -14LUFS:
    https://artists.spotify.com/faq/mas...tify-play-my-track-at-the-level-it's-mastered
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  11. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

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  12. KungPaoFist

    KungPaoFist Audiosexual

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    Are we talking about the overall dynamic range or a 1db empty headroom pertaining to broadcast regulations? Either way I'm probably in violations so trying to work this out.. -2 LUFS seems more like a Skrillex lifegoal more then an FCC regulation?
     
  13. LightOfSirius

    LightOfSirius Noisemaker

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    2019 and Soundcloud still promoting loudnesswars and no normalisation coming?
     
  14. Nana Banana

    Nana Banana Audiosexual

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    Absolutely. Just leave plenty of headroom in the beginning ...I usually do that, then adjust the "match loudness" parameters on Adobe Audition via LUF's during the final process (lately -16 works for my stuff). That technique seems to work best for me.
     
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  15. lasteno

    lasteno Producer

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    Screen Shot 2019-08-12 at 9.27.46 PM.png so when you get less penalties? when your have no much dynamic range?
    this is the man.. by the killers....it sounds pretty loud..

    I am just checking. cd rip. normalized at 0.dbs in RX7 stills get +1.1 true peak as they delivered

    .. and if I use itunes volumen normalization ON.. this is how the original .wav ends up. at -10.3 dbs
    Screen Shot 2019-08-12 at 9.31.51 PM.png
     
  16. Baxter

    Baxter Audiosexual

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    You get "penalty" (reduced volume) when your loudness is too high. It's more of an adjustment than a penalty, as the word "penalty" gives it a negative tone. JMHO.
    LUFS (Loudness Unit Full Scale) is a loudness measurement that is coded to measure loudness like humans percieve loudness, drawing data from the Robinson-Dadson curve, Average RMS, etc.

    In Sweden we had a long-running problem with TV commercials coming on and being super loud when we were watching a movie (on state- and commercial network TV). It scared the shit out of us, and we always had to adjust the volume between commercials and the movie on the TV. Then the EU introduced the EBU-R128 loudness standard in 2011 and finally everything had to be at the same loudness (or else the network would be fined if they went louder). Lovely! Now the road was less rocky.

    Same thing is applied to the major streaming sites. It's not really a bad thing, but a counter-measure for the very varied dynamic ranges across music genres, podcasts, etc.
    I had to check. Yes, it's loud. Yes, it's normalized to 0dBFS and has 1.04dBTP (here). I get -5.9LUFS integrated, which is pretty loud. But does it sound bad? Sound good?
    It's mastered at The Mastering Palace, NYC but I don't know by whom (they have a team on their website).
    That goes to show that we/they all do it differently. Loudness over ISP clipping, punchy dynamics, etc. Or vice versa. Compressed and saturated tracks also has a characteristic sound to them that most people like. "Loud" is still regarded as "professional". I wish more music had more dynamics, but the take-away is that these loud tracks loses some of their punch when being loudness normalized. Yin/yang.
    It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  17. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    Tell me about it! :winker:
     
  18. No Avenger

    No Avenger Audiosexual

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    You get least penalty when yout track matches the platform's target most (isn't louder than the target).

    On YT, right-click on a vid, click stats for nerds and look at the Volume/Normalized entry. For The Killers - The Man it states content loudness 6.7dB, means it is lowered by 6.7dB to fit to YT loudness target.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  19. lasteno

    lasteno Producer

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    thank you very much for your answer ,, I now have it a little bit more clearer
     
  20. lasteno

    lasteno Producer

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    thank you for your answer
     
  21. NeverenoghFun

    NeverenoghFun Platinum Record

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    This dude really had it correct.
    It depends on your country. Check I think FCC will have our american regulations.

    But it's like tuning.. It's a stardard because a couple old dudes in a room decided it was.. its not a Universal law, meerly suggestion
    If your not actually playing this on the radio my concern would be drawn twoards just creating a consist level of loudness thru out what ever platform this is coming out on.
     
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