Just felt like posting I'm loving Ableton Live 12. Not only is it useful, but it's really fun to learn about it. All the shortcuts and tricks. It's a lot of effort into a Software piece. The documentation on the web is delightfully detailed, every single knob is explained.
At the end, the best DAW is the one you know the best, but this one has a lot of fancy stuff that make every session fun.

I have to say that 12 is the first version I ever try from Ableton.

 

Ableton is awesome but I wish it was actually usable lol. Plugins crash my projects randomly and they get recovered with patches being reverted to Init presets. Then there's the random and insufferable GUI lag. If only they implemented plugin sandboxing or maybe used the GPU for the GUI rendering? but I imagine that will take them like another 50 years or something so I'll just use Bitwig instead.

 

I have also been using Live since version 5 and still use the program every day. What is really remarkable is Ableton's ignorance towards their customers and their wishes. I don't think there is any other company in this DAW universe that does NOT react to customer wishes to such an extent. They really always need to do their own thing. The list of requirements is infinitely long, especially when it comes to functions that other DAWs have long since implemented.

As I said, with Ableton you only get what they want to serve you. After 23 years, you now also get a pitch correction plugin, although everyone probably uses the Waves or Antares version. And this has now been praised again as a major 12.1 renewal.
So yes, Ableton Live and I have an absolute love-hate relationship.

 

modern berlin'ers....

 

I love Ableton - I came from Vegas, Sonar and Fl Studio I think in 2014, and never looked back.But... I wish it performed better, mainly because it is supposed to be a live oriented daw (I have used it live for some years before the covid lockdown). Things get heavy pretty fast with Ableton - my system starts struggling before its cpu meter hits 35, 40%. And it is getting heavier with each new version.
It takes 2, 3 minutes (even a bit more) to open and be ready to use (FL Studio loads in 5 seconds!) because of indexing, preparing max and other processes running behind, and sometimes it freezes for 5 seconds just playing a drum loop (even in an virtually empty project).
PS: sometimes I also hate it for these issues (and some others) lol

 

Last edited: Jul 4, 2024 at 3:50 PM

Really? I've seen a remarkable perfomance boost with Live 12 compared to 11. And in comparison with other DAWs it's not worse

 

That sounds like a hardware issue on your end. First run was a bit tedious for me because of the scan processes, but after that it's been running really smoothly. I don't have many extra devices and stuff though.

 

I remember version 2.0 no midi instruments

 

Wow, that's a lot! For me Ableton takes 10-15 seconds to open. Still slower than FL (~3 sec.), but it's ok, because it scans VSTs on every start.

 

Last edited: Jul 4, 2024 at 5:34 PM

hi,
I've been using Live for years, and version 12 is very stable. There are some things I don't like about the new features, but I've got used to them without getting too worked up....
I have a machine dedicated to music only, off the network and optimised for tasks, of course all ssd.
I went from Notator/Atari (currently Logic) to Nuendo and FL (which I found a bit of a toy and hadn't yet integrated audio).
I start up about 10 seconds after switching on, never a crash.
I really can't complain!
On the site there's some excellent advice on optimisation.

 

iirc, yes. midi didn't come to Ableton until around 2004, which would be v4 time.... as I remember being in the studio on a particular project in the summer around that time and it arrived and was a welcome thing...

but hey, I could be wrong as I am on a lot.. .

 

Interesting, because I moved from Reaper to Live precisely because Ableton does not cater to every user wish and, to me, they seem to have a clear philosophy of what it is. Again, for me it seems a strong point as it functions almost as an instrument, most of the things are implemented as versatile tools and are well-thought out beforehand (e.g. I don't think their aim with the new tuner device was primarily realistic vocal correction,more a versatile tool for creative use, which even their demonstration video shows). I've seen some of the most requested stuff users wish to be implemented on various forums/reddit, but I honestly believe it would be a workflow/UI disaster if some of those things were implemented, and certain other things would be a waste of resources as such things are better left to third party developers for now, until the technology becomes more developed - e.g. stem separation, AI mastering, AI music generation, etc. are mostly gimmicks when implemented in a DAW, because it can't really match the quality of specialized third party stuff atm.

Reaper's flexible-tabula-rasa approach works phenomenally for mixing/mastering or working with a large number of audio files that need batch manipulation/processing and exporting, like sound design for media/games. But, it has a ton of half-baked features implemented at some point just to cover that ground or as requested by users - e.g. the modulations system was there from the start, seemingly flexible and forward-thinking, at least initially, but remained underdeveloped and basically completely unusable, and the automation items, apart from some niche cases, were much better implemented in one of the latest versions of Ableton (where every time selection essentially functions as a temporary automation item).

 

You're right. Ableton simply takes a different approach, their main aim is to offer a tool for making music and in my opinion they are unsurpassed when you look at all the tools available for creative expression. There really are no limits. The countless Max4Life plugins alone are an absolute beast for instrumentalists and producers. The other side of the coin is that most other DAWs have the same functions, because the companies probably agreed that certain tools are part of a DAW or define a standard nowadays (ARA2 or other interfaces that are often fully integrated into a DAW. Here Ableton simply seems to follow its own philosophy by not implementing such things. Of course, there are many people who still work with vocals in Ableton Live, which can also work really well. But if you've ever worked with Pro Tools or Studio One or, as in your case, with Reaper and then see which audio editing tools are included, you miss them in Ableton Live. But as long as customers continue to buy licenses for Ableton, they won't deviate from this path.

 

I don't disagree and, of course, most DAWs are in the process of implementing 'most' functions, at least those that are perceived as standardized or essential to cover the market, to nullify the edge that certain competitors have - i.e. comping/pitch correction in Ableton or clip views/workflow in other DAWs.
But, I think there's a point of not only diminishing returns, but a line that, if crossed, would end up with completely fucking up everything, the functionality and user experience. These companies have probably already started thinking about it, I would be surprised if they didn't, but there's something to be said about limitations in terms of focus when it comes to tools (not really in terms of lacking "basic" capabilities), and if literally all imaginable features were implemented it would impact the identity of the tool, and I don't mean this in terms of branding/marketing potential. Again, what the basic/standard features are is up for debate, but I believe it would be for the best if they (daw companies) optimized for their (relatively) unique workflow or advantages, one can't literally have both - everything under the sun and a focused tool, so that theirs is simply the customer base primarily concerned with simplicity, orchestral work, live performance, studio integration and mixing, etc.
Otherwise, someone might implement literally everything possible, with all options and flexibility, but then if one is using it for any of the specific things above, one might question why not simply use the thing primarily focused on that, and that goes for basically everything specialized. Btw, that happened to me with Reaper and its modulation, clips, etc. - there's Playtime, half-finished modulation, and all the scripts and actions I would have to utilize to get it kinda close to something like Live, so I figured I'd much rather spend that time fucking around in Max or with sound design.

 

To clarify, I am still in 11 - have not had the time to test 12 yet.
And yes, it takes just some 10 seconds to start, but after it opens it just freezes completely for at least 2 minutes preparing max and indexing and I don't know what else it needs to do to be ready to use (9 and 10 were better in this regard, but both froze anyway, just were less slow to get ready - around 30, 40 secs maybe).
Maybe it is hardware related, but all other daws I had installed in some point in this machine (reaper, fl studio, sonar) with the same amount of plugins performed much, much better (like, less than 10 seconds to open and no waiting at all after opening. FL Studio was like 3 secs).

PS: from the comments above, I think it is about time to move to 12 for the sake of my affair with Live lol. And sorry for any confusion, as I forgot to state in my previous comment that I was refering to my experiences with 9, 10 and 11, and not 12 yet.

 

Last edited: Jul 5, 2024 at 12:19 AM

Yeah, I'm on 12 and it's well worth it. The new instruments are wonky as hell (Meld!) and really fun to geek around with.

Then there's Roar which has become my "sound disassembly" type of saturator... it's not subtle when cranked up, but sometimes that's what's needed. Then just now a Max specialist (who's also done bits for the library) came up with this: rr by iftah, a simple device that let's you feed midi notes to roar's note feedback section. It's madness, so yeah, great!



(hopefully that instagram clip embeds)