If you work somewhere, you use whatever you've got to get your task done. It doesn't mean you need them to make music. They are bulky, bloated, and expensive. And a hinderance to learning as someone starting out. It's a circle-jerk.

I read a book a few years ago called Mixing with 10 Plugins. Something like that. Waves users should read it. Save about 10 gig on your drive, of nothing but bloat. Most people just use them to ruin their own songs if they are really just trying to learn this stuff. Waste of time.

 

Last edited: Nov 13, 2022

I'd be interested if you could track down what that book was, I'm at least not able to find anything with that name

 

it's actually 5. Step By Step Mixing. It's about 20 bucks and just good coffee table reading if you already know what you are doing. But, it does a great job of telling you what to look into learning even more about if you don't. 5 subjects. Covers a lot of stuff in short language. It's either for you or it's not. It could probably be of cool reminder even. Worth 20 bucks anyway. Swedish author, I can't spell or type that one for you sorry.

 

Last edited: Nov 14, 2022

I've used the CLA Vocals plug-in a couple times, when it hit the spot ASAP, though I prefer to set up my own processing chains for things – but the Butch Vig Vocals plug-in has been rather useful. I've used the CLA Guitar a couple times, too, though also in conjunction with another amp emulation. The CLA Drums plug-in is useless trash. The Aphex and the de-esser are the Waves plug-ins that I mainly use.

 

"The most important part of any song is the vocals"

ah, bullshit

 

With CLA i use the same method as with all "artist-series" chains or "black box " plugins.

Start with the most complete preset and slowly turn everything off until it is totally bypassed.

 

personally i only use the original TDM Bundle from 1996 on my PTIII nubus rig, it was the best code, it went downhill from there.
waves cla vocals is just veq3 SSL L1 Rend. use what you got, make it work. no secrets.

 

Nothing wrong with the Waves CLA. If you can't get decent vocals out of it then it's not for you.

 

Jaycen Joshua (who IMO has one of the best vocal treatment in the game) uses CLA vocals in his chain. I do not understand the hate for this plugin when it is simply a tool... I don't use it but it is intuitive and simple to dial in with the parallel comp, additional fx, and bass+treble boost/attenuate. If it gets the job done for you who cares what others think

 

Over the years, I've seen WAVES plugins get as much pushback as, say, T-Racks plugins. I've always been curious why, but in the end, I don't give a toss because haters will hate no matter what you say, do, or release.

 

Just to be clear. I'm agreeing with you in that your opinion 'doesn't matter' ). I happen to really like some of the Waves stuff.

 

lmao

 

Have to admit, "I don't know what it's doing" is a pretty stupid criticism- use your ears fool! If you like what it's doing then fine, if you don't then fine. You don't have to know how the car runs either to drive in it.

 

"I can't use that, it sounds like Winger!"
I'm liking CLA more than I thought I did after seeing that.

 

Excellent reply. Yes he does. And he uses more obscure plugs as well. The problem of todays "mixers" is the dont know they tools, dont explore them, dont push them. I love the CLA Vocals. I found a way to use it as a send, just for the crumch and verb. Well, Pensado is still using 2016 Eventide, which was developed , I dont know, 40 years ago?. Know your tools and make them work.

 

I wasn't that impressed with it myself, it might be good for someone just starting out recording, but I think you can acheive better results from making your own vocal chains

 

The holy grail of the grammy winning vocals? from the grammy winning aliasing company? yes me likey (i'm serious)

 

Man, watch the video of him and Dave Pensado recently posted on Sister site. Mix with the Masters.


That guy actually has Product Placements! in the video. He recommends shit he can't explain what it even does. "Turbo EQ" about Wavesfactory Spectre. Parallel Compression being done with the 3rd slider to the left on a CLA plugin. He's plugging products for people to look up and buy on his say-so.

just lol. Buy a book.

 

Last edited: Mar 3, 2023

Same reason people talk about using an SM57.
If it works, people talk.

I personally don't use any combination or "black-box" plugins because I am a hobbyist and like to know what's happening and still learning things that can be applied using a variety of more standard plugins.

I like the idea that, if a certain plugin is not available I can do it with another one without too much struggle, so I'd rather not depend much on "mojo" or "magic" plugins.
Of course all of it is a bit of a "black box" unless one understand the physics, but that requires math well beyond my abilities.
The numbers don't lie but the numbers don't hear either.

CLA is a wanker and you don't need math to know that.
But that wanker might still produce a good plugin.

 

Last edited: Mar 4, 2023

So I find this thread interesting in many ways. I am a former studio mixer and somewhere around 1980 I decided to move to live sound. So I've been in this biz for 45 years and have used pretty much all the vintage hardware Waves and others try to emulate. I have also mixed shows for 20 or so grammy winning artists in my years. A few of these artists prefer an all analog signal path as they can hear the difference but it's really shell game because as soon as the analog audio comes out of the console it goes into a Lake LM44 where it then feeds the amps as Dante data via an ethernet cable. I am also friends with many of the mix engineers both live and studio that are on todays tours and charts and they use a LOT of Waves plug ins both live and in the studio. These people take between 40-70 inputs from a stage and produce a wonderful mix with the sound and feel the instruments had on the recordings. With snapshot automation these plugins or their parameters get changed with every song or even many times during a song to maintain the continuity. I am also guilty of using plug ins but I typically use less than some of my friends do. I'm not a huge fan of any of the everything in a box plug ins with a famous name on it (however I really like the JJP fairchild and I have never met Jack). I give an instrument or voice only what I feel it needs to fill the space in the mix it needs to fill. I usually mix on an Avid S6L and believe me that console will allow you to use 100 or more plugs if you want. Hell you could have 100 waves slots with 8 plugs per slot if your waves server can handle the load. I usually have around 10-25 slots loaded but I only use about 6 Waves products even though each console has a mercury license and a handful of others from Waves and other manufacturers like mcDSP, and Eventide to name a few. I have favorites just like I have favorite mics. So just because you don't like Waves or think it's 17 year old shit doesn't mean it is. I suppose a 50 year old EMT 140 is also shit to some people. It's all in how it's used. It's a tool. No one plug in works for everything and you can't expect it to work magic. If your tracks are shit no plugin in the world will fix it. Learn how to mic first. There are some very good plugs out there. Mix with your ears and not your eyes (meaning what you read about a plug). Your probably wondering, why is this guy on Audioz, well I am always exploring ways to improve my mix and I like to listen to everything I can get my hands on and Audioz is always here, I don't have to wait for AES, LDI or Infocomm shows to try them. If I like it and use it, I buy it! Otherwise I delete it sand forget about it. Mix On!