Latency issues : need help for cheap pc upgrade

Discussion in 'PC' started by Batteruno, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. Batteruno

    Batteruno Noisemaker

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    Hi everybody!

    With my actual setup of broken musician trying to record vst plugins it appears that it's unplayable with 20ms latency (10+10) with buffer at 256, and if i try 128 i just ear craks.. here is the crappy setup :

    - Zoom R16 as audio interface

    - Labtop HP
    AMD A8-5500 APU (3,2Ghz) with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics
    8Go ram
    Disk SSD
    USB 3
    Windows 7

    (EDITED : I first wanted to recycle another crappy thing but get convinced it was a bad idea lol)

    So for the computer what do you think are the essentials needs for minimum latency?

    (I would like 700-800 euros max)

    - Proc : (Ryzen?)
    - 16Go or 32Go of fast RAM?
    - Of course USB 3.0? (All plugged in USB)
    - A good SSD disk?
    - SATA III too..?

    Thank you in advance for helping!

    EDIT : I found out that the Zoom was plugged with a bad midi usb cable, now the latency is better but i have craks so this zoom seems really useless as it is worst thant asio4all..
    So if i'm sure that the labtop can handle it with a better audio interface i will change that crap of zoom first..
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  3. Bitmonkey

    Bitmonkey Ultrasonic

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    You're wasting your time trying to recycle an i3 desktop especially one bought 'some years ago' - depending on the case you probably may not be able to change the motherboard (which you will most likely probably have to to change CPU - and definitely will to go to Ryzen) or other stuff and all the RAM etc will be ancient and not matched to modern CPU speeds. You might as well start from scratch IMO with a new case, CPU, RAM, motherboard and SSD drive and forget the old crap you have lying around. For starters your old motheboard most likely won't be USB 3.0 to start with.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  4. vsuper

    vsuper Member

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    I have AMD X4 740 (same family as yours) and lexicon alpha interface (very basic)

    i have no problems with latency in Studio One, playing guitar through it, and playing vsts. 9ms or less

    also I don't use diva, it kills my cpu )
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  5. MrLyannMusic

    MrLyannMusic Rock Star

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    9ms is too mush.
     
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  6. 5teezo

    5teezo Audiosexual

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    Get a decent Audio Interface and a SSD… problem solved.
     
  7. minozheros

    minozheros Kapellmeister

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    The amd processor you are using right now is actually rather slow.. it has around 2500 benchmark points in passmark, i would suggest to aim for at least 10000. if i would buy a desktop now i would go for the amd ryzen 7 3800X which has 23.000 for around 300 € or the amd ryzen 9 3900X for 400 € which has 32.000, but it certainly depends on your budget. the audio interface should not be the limiting factor really i think. maybe you could try the asio4all drivers to see if they make a difference http://www.asio4all.org/ at least if you are ok with sticking to 44.1 khz and 16/24 bit.
    apart from that, 20 ms latency is not ideal, but you should be able to adjust your playing so that it sounds right more or less.. you will have to move the recorded midi data to the grid roughly after recording before you quantize everything though. the problems you experience might be caused by using record quantization, but if you move the midi first and quantize after that it should work in general even if you have to work with higher latency.

    500 max is not going to work i think if you can't reuse parts that you already have, which i don't think you can, really. Maybe you can try and sell the laptop and the old i3 for 200-300 bucks if you are lucky. 700 - 800 might be more reasonable if you need to get everything: cpu, motherboard, ram, ssd and very important a high quality power supply and a powerful cooler. 16gb ram should be enough.. if you really need more because you use a shitload of kontakt libraries, you can buy it later. In my experience you will be able to get the money back that you spend more in comparison with the more basic option when you are upgrading again and sell the old computer, so it is a one time investment that will pay off in the long run.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  8. Batteruno

    Batteruno Noisemaker

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    Thank you all for your answers, very precious indeed!

    I made a few tests today and i had very interesting results that are changing everything :

    First i tested with asio4all and i had 15ms in 128 and i could even go to 64 having 12,2ms (6,1+6,1), then some divine voice spoke to me and i made an other test changing the dirty usb/midi cable plugged in the interface for a "new" one that was plugged in my piano and that was the original one from the zoom......
    Ok i'm learning guys, sorry for that, so now the actual latency with the zoom is also 12,2 (6,4+5,8) but with buffer at 256.. But now with this latency i hear craks (not continuously but sometimes quite a lot) even at 256... (and even if i'm still using the crappy cable on my piano for now it doesn't come from it because i tested with virtual piano inside the DAW and the result is the same..)

    So... i'm a bit lost.. One sure thing is that the zoom is actually really useless as it is worst than the asio4all drivers..

    I think i will change the interface first as Vsuper was saying he is working decently well with a similar cpu..

    Ok so for you too 5teezo the labtop can handle it for starting? It has already SSD internal (but probably a cheap one) and all my vst are in an external SSD i just bought (that is good i think)...

    When i was recording piano solo pieces in one part it was kind of ok but when i tried recording percussions and drums i understood that was not possible.. The thing is i'm not quantizating the recording and after record neither : as a drummer groove and rhythmic placement are very important to me and are parts of my feelings and i will never quantize my plays.. depends on the style too i guess, i wanna record kind of jazz fusion things and i really need this human touch in the placement (same with velocity i hate to have to try to calibrate it to make it feels natural, i would like it to be just what i played but i will come to this i guess..)!

    Sorry for the long posts and thanks again for sharing your experiences!

    (Editing my first post to be more relevant on the situation)
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  9. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

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    that you can do with kontakt libs when having enough ram...

    vst you want on same location ssd as youre DAW...not on external disk
    I have it all on c with short paths
     
  10. Batteruno

    Batteruno Noisemaker

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    Ah, another thingy... :)
    So you think this can add latency/create some craks problems when using interface?

    I will check that, i actually kept one piano one bass and one drumset on my internal disk for more convenience, i'll see if that's changing something when using only those ones.

    Otherwise my internal SSD is only 200go so with the system and a bit of space to DL/let him breath it's not possible to have all vst there..

    Thank you for pointing this out!
     
  11. Gyro Gearloose

    Gyro Gearloose Audiosexual

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    yeah do a test
     
  12. recycle

    recycle Audiosexual

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    Oblique strategy: Go Dawless

    PRO:
    • Zero Latency
    • No more pc issues
    • External gear is sexy
    • Turning a knob is more satisfying than moving the mouse
    • You can play music with your eyes closed

    CONS:
    • A lot of cables everywhere
    • Fully depleted bank account (but you'll have gorgeous gear)
     
  13. Daskeladden

    Daskeladden Rock Star

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    I don't get it. He has very little money and you recommend Dawless? ...makes no sense
     
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  14. recycle

    recycle Audiosexual

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    A Volca Sample would be more than enough to start, I started with a Casio SK-1 (I was really broke at that time)
    [​IMG]

    Actually I'm still broke, but this is another story...

    — UPDATE —
    You shouldn't think that the outboard gear has only astronomical prices, many things have changed in recent years: this trend of going dawless has generated competition between manifacturers and prices have dropped.
    OP said Budget is 800 euro: I’ll give you 3 fully dawless setup estimate on that budget.
    He already has a computer, an audio interface to record performance and (I suppose) loudspeakers

    Option 1 (Entry level): Volca Sample + Volca Bass + Volca Keys + Volca FM + Behringer mixer 10ch & effects + cables TOT: $770
    Effective and fun setup to enter the world of outboard gear

    Option 2 (more professional): Novation Circuit + Behringer Model D + Volca Sample + Behringer mixer 10ch & effects + cables TOT: $800
    a lot of possibilities, you can start producing seriously

    Option 3 (Extreme): Elektron Digitakt + cables (no mixer needed) TOT: $770
    A machine that can really do anything, a futureproof choice

    -All prices based on new gear-

    Notes:
    No matter the setup, you will soon feel the need to add effects: there are pedals from any price, starting from $ 50. If you want to completely avoid the use of the computer, on ebay there are good quality cassette recorders at a good price (used). I got a Nakamichi for $ 60. You will be amazed at how good the recording quality on a chrome cassette can be. I do not recommend brand new cassette recorders: currently few are produced and they are all of very bad quality
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  15. Batteruno

    Batteruno Noisemaker

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    Mmh yeah i think it's a bit too oblique for me! :)

    And I like to mix live recordings of my bands, also I wanna use vst like chinese violins and 1960's drums and cymbals in my compositions, and I just spent 1 month choosing my vst lol!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  16. recycle

    recycle Audiosexual

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    Okay, then you definitely need a new computer. I'm sorry, I'm not the right person to help you, but in this forum there are people who know a lot about how to build a pc for audio production, good luck!
     
  17. minozheros

    minozheros Kapellmeister

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    Maybe you can use the asio4all drivers when working inside the daw with your vsts with a reasonable latency and no cracks and use the interface only when recording drums etc with a higher latency. if you are recording audio the latency should not be that important as long as you can play to some tracks you already have in the box or a tick. you can move the audio easily to be at the position where you want it after recording it.

    About a possible new computer.. if you want to build one, build it yourself.. it is really not that hard and there are a ton of videos on youtube about how it is done.. Just get some help with the parts to use if you are unsure, but even that is not all that hard. This way you won't pay for stuff that you could have done yourself and you have more money that can can spend for the actual hardware.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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