I have a friend that is starting MAO and want to setup a simple home studio.

I'm writing this post on his behalf because he doesn't speak english and barely use the internet except for Bandcamp, Soundcloud and youtube.

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Context :

He have a basic laptop with Intel i5 CPU (windows) and trialed a bunch of DAWs, VSTs, and FXs and started developing a style of electronic music heavily based on sound design that resemble SOPHIE (PRODUCT, HEAV3N SUSPENDED, OOEPUI, unreleased, etc...) but more focused on the Techno/Experimental aspect instead à la AUTECHRE instead of Bubblegum Bass/Pop

I must say, I am impressed by what he achieved in so little time.

Now he wants to buy legit versions of everything he needs :

DAW :
Live 12

Instruments :
Xfer - Serum
Reveal Sound - Spire
Sonic Charge - Microtonic
Fors - Opal

Effects :
Cableguys - Shaperbox 3
Fabfilter - Bundle
Valhalla - Bundle

Audio interface :
Motu M2

Heaphones :
Beyerdynamic DT 900 PRO X

He know that his current PC is not powerful enough so the big question for him is what laptop should he be buying with a max budget of 2000€ ?

He doesn't want a macbook pro and he want an Intel CPU with 32Go RAM.

He's planning to keep this laptop for about 10 years, upgrading to a more powerful computer and studio monitoring in a treated room only if he ever make money with his music.

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Questions :

hopefully knowledgeable peoples on the topic of windows laptops and CPU performance with specific intent of running Serum smoothly and music production as a whole will help me :

Intel® Core™ i7-13700H or Intel® Core™ i9-13900H ? (or another serial number that I don't know of)
What is the difference between the two ?
What is the specific speed of each Chip Base and turbo ? and how this affect Performance ?
What are the performances single core/multithreading ?
Does Serum operate one a single/multi core and what's the most appropriate CPU ?

As far as laptop model we narrowed it to 2 models but if someone knows a good brand/model who's price is not coughed because of design/marketing let me know !

He only need a workstation optimized for music production, this machine will not be connected to the internet or used for anything else than music (audio interface + heaphones) Maybe a small midi controller like the Behringer Swing, but that's it).

DELL XPS 13 or 15
or
ASUS ZENBOOK 14 (UX3404)

He will not use samples or heavy libraries, he only do sound design so 500go SSD will be more than enought, I have a 250go on my apple machine, do similar style of music and have no problem with drive space.

So what are the pros and cons of these 2 models ranging from 1700€ to 2150€ ?
Does one brand have the edge on the other in term of built quality and performance ?
Do you know of others brand offering the same specs at 2000€ or less ?
What's in you opinion the best choice to run multiple instance of serum with lot of voices and modulations ?

He thinks about all this with the bigger buffer size possible in Live since he will not be tracking vocals or record any acoustic instruments/hardware synths
In normal x2 oversampling (global pannel) but can it run in X4 aswell ?
What kind power does one needs to run Serum at X4 with no issues ?
How does the graphic card impact music production and can someone recommend one ?

To anyone willing to share an advised point of view and experience on this topic, thank you for helping me or pointing out my mistakes, I am not very well informed about this and I'm trying to help my friend the best I can.

Cheers and have a good one

 

Just buy a laptop no need for rocket science....

 

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs/workstation-laptops

 

1. 19 will be better than i7
2. higher the single core clock speed, better the DAW performace, esp Ableton.
3.focus more on base clock than turbo clock.
4. Buy as much ram as you can afford.
5. graphic card is not needed, if its strictly for music production.

 

Lmao I told him to just buy the new 1999.99€ 14" M3 Macbook Pro and forget about it but he doesn't believe it's optimized for what he want to do and isn't interested in Apple products.

"Apple is no good bang for bucks"

I am perfectly happy on my 2015 i7 MBP and never once thinked about how it worked ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯

 

those both cpus have only 6 performance cores, so basically a very underpowered nowadays desktop i5,
I believe official specs from ARK Intel website answer most of your questions:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...3700h-processor-24m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...3900h-processor-24m-cache-up-to-5-40-ghz.html

as you can see both have same TDP power specs, so their performance heavily depends on thermal design and cooling of a specific laptop, not processor itself, in certain cases i9 could actually perform worse than i7, funny right?

of those laptops, they both have compromised cooling, and most likely will differ in display, keyboard and touchpad quality

 

whatever laptop you buy, it is more likely to be on the way out at around 5 years; than it is to be still around in 10.

None of the mentioned virtual synths/fx plugins require a beast, until higher track counts. Keep in mind that new plugins are not becoming smaller or more optimized, as our computers become faster. In reality, developers will take the liberty to create more resource-hungry software.

Bouncing/freezing tracks is helpful on laptops to take some load off the CPU. I would look at the difference in prices for the 32gb ram and 64gb ram. If it is not much difference, I would go with 64gb.

 

@Kunter2011 it's not that it's rocket science it's just optimization. You don't need high performance GPU for music and mainstream brands force you to get a jacked Graphic Card when you go up in CPU and RAM power.

Thank you @RobGee for recommending 3XS, I was aware of Carillon in the UK, I will check for customs regulations with their customer service as we are located in France. Sadly there is no custom PC business focused on Audio workstations in France, they all do Gaming.

With the customization options 3XS provide I can choose a 500go HD instead of 1TB and max the CPU up to 64 under 2000€ or get a better deal at 32go. They use a basic graphic card that can run WIN11 and any DAW smoothly so you cut down on useless GPU performance that inflate the price. happens to give me the possibility to get a larger and better screen aswell.

You have the option with PC to get performances taylored to your needs so it would be a shame to not take advantage of it.
I mean like I said I would have just have bought a MPB 14 M3 but from what I understand we can have a more powerful computer with a better cooling system at a better price.

Thanks for your input @tzzsmk and @Harish Pamu , would maxxing up to 64go RAM be benefic or is it overkill and DAW/VST won't be able to take advantage of it anyway ?

 

brother tell your friend to get m chipset macbook pro I was also using win based laptop before now using m2 pro with 32 gb ram I can do whatever I want open as much as plugin as I can and I own legit Serum running so smooth... smts I open 15-20 serum in a project for fun...

 

Depends if they're gonna be using sample based libraries like kontakt/keyscape and the likes. If he's gonna dip into orchestral music, then Yes. If not, 32gb should be more than sufficient. Anyway, i think ram(unless soldered on) can be upgraded down the line.

 

@clone @tzzsmk , with a 3XS laptop (efficient cooling profile)

Intel i9 13900H 14 core / 20 thread CPU
64GB (2x32GB) Corsair Vengeance 4800MHz DDR5
500GB Samsung 980 PRO - 6900MB/s Read, 5000MB/s Write (High speed NVMe M.2. drive)

Do you think its possible to run 8 Serums at X4 oversampling with 2 instances at 2x16 voices heavily FX processed and modulated supersaws
2 instances making simpler synth sounds and 4 instances making light drums sounds and FX without entering the crackling zone ?

Or is that straight up impossible enven in X2

Wavetable synthesis in serum kills de CPU fast with High voice count compared to Dune 3 or spire that use VA but that's the sound he's going for.

I know that X16 doesn't sound better sometimes and X10 or X12 is enough I'm just trying to know more about processing power and speed, I just asked Steve Duda about optimized specs on Reddit hopefully he responds at some point and I'll share the answer here.

 

That's what I think but bro DO NOT trust/like Apple at all and I can understand.

Off topic but :

@Kunter2011 Asking for me because I will change my i7 MBP next year, do you mind telling me what is your exact model (year/chip/RAM/HD) and how much did you pay for ? my max budget will be 2000€ aswell and I'm not shure I can have 32gb RAM at apple for that price ?

Are M chips that good ?

 

if a workload doesn't utilize 64GB ram, then there isn't much benefit of having 64GB ram,
sure more ram is more, but especially with audio you don't really want much multitasking (stuff running in the background),
if the price is nice, then sure go for it, but you might as well not buy 64GB ram, and only buy it later (for even lower price),
I personally haven't run into limitations with 32GB ram past 7 years, I'd consider 64GB as futureproof spec, but not 100% sure yet,

MacBook Pro 14" M3 won't give you 10 years of "up-to-date" lifespan, I highly doubt it - take a look at something like iPad 5, its software support lasted 7 system versions, on the other hand PCs from 2012 can still be unofficially upgraded to latest Windows 11

 

I'm not sure if it is "official", but it is generally accepted that a Mac will be fully supported for at least 5 years. After that, they do not "owe" you upgrades. Of course that doesn't mean the newer things will not work. It's just an approximation of their development cycle.

Anyway, it is pointless to speculate about how many instances of something a machine will handle. There are too many variables even within the synth patches to do that reliably. The number I care about more is audio channel count. I like to bounce, disable, mute and hide software synth tracks. If I can make one channel of Serum, I can make 30. I am not constantly going back to my synth plugins to adjust them over and over. But I still can anyway, just have to re-render that one part. I print an audio file and my "Serum count" resets back to 1. Most little tweaks to a synth patch can almost always be accomplished using the audio track and some plugins on the audio. I almost never run plugin synths through effects because of the resources use, before bouncing synth part; but also because I change effects settings more than patches. I add most effects to audio tracks.

 

Last edited: Jan 8, 2024

I'm on Catalina 10.15.7 running Logic 10.6.3

Every AU I use are stable and runs smoothly (except Serum wich eats my CPU when I push it with too many voices and modulation but that's on me, I "only" have 16 Go 1600 MHz DDR3 - 2,2 GHz Intel Core i7 quad core and I just can't do that at no cost)
Didn't see the point to upgrade OS after that
No major changes in Logic 10.7.0. well at least I don't need anything from it.
10.8.0 gave a lot of new tools that I actually would like to use but I can't because it only runs on M chips and I'm on intel (wich is a big fuck you to everybody from apple, like their prices)

So the Macbook pro investment for 10 years was a success for me but I'm not so sure it's a good deal in 2024, they obsolescence implementation
is revolting and you can't repair these machines anymore, newer version of Logic only running on M chips is crazy.

Still, works like a charm, tough build and I know a mac architecture inside out.
So that's going to be a painful bullet to bite in a year or so for me and maybe I should take the lead and switch to PC and Live, Cubase or Bitwig.

Im okay with not being up to fate a the 5 years mark, most of the music I like was made with 10 time less powerful computers anyway.

Anyone having precise knowledge of 13th/14th generation i7/i9 intel chips or any relevant topic, do not hesitate to add to the conversation, I'm not very confident about my knowledge of SDD write speed or CPU base Frequency but I think I will point my friend in the direction of 3XS, seems very clear and optimized.

Thanks to everybody who helped me so far

Feel free to chime in

 

Last edited: Jan 8, 2024

Are you sure that you can take that picture?

 

There's never been such a gap between the PC and Mac laptops when it comes to music production. There were periods of clear supremacy of Macbook Pros and periods of a more even race, but since the introduction of Apple Silicon there's been no contest.

I'm not referring to the CPU power, benchmarks, track counts etc. Almost every laptop on the market today is theoretically capable of a decent performance. Finding one that is also practically capable has always been a crapshoot on the PC side, but even with the bad ones filtered out (not a trivial task, a different batch of the same model and version can have different components and be entirely useless for music production, unlike any of the Macbooks) and only suitable PC laptops used for comparison - there's no comparison.

Because in a studio setting you can't compare totally silent vs not silent, and, when pushed a little, a rather indiscreet kind of not silent. Some people might not be bothered by the absence of silence in a studio, but they are welcome to try to explain how silence in a recording setting is not objectively crucial.

Again, let's disregard the consequences of thermal throttling, which is never far away when the fans start ramping up. However, disregarding the gap in energy efficiency and consumption has been and will continue to be increasingly difficult.

Consequently, outside of a studio, the difference in both battery life and performance between the Apple Silicon Macbooks and the PC laptops is nothing short of spectacular.

Also, there's no longer any price advantage on the PC side. In terms of value for money, they have been merely trying to catch up with Apple, with various degrees of success. And then there's the Macbook Air.

There's more, but we don't want to come accross as Apple fanboys, do we? For decades I couldn't care less for anything Apple, and only wanted to buy a decent PC laptop so that I can install Linux and avoid anything Microsoft. And yet I ended up with an M1 machine. Still don't like Apple one bit, but give credit where credit is due.

 

Why bothering with laptop while expecting 10 years out of it, better just go for desktop PC and call it a day. He can start with this then upgrade it on the long run, pop more powerful CPU or whatever he feels like doing, much smarter long term investment then laptop.

 

Last edited: Jan 9, 2024

i9-14900HX is the best laptop cpu available

 

i7 12700 + 16gb ddr5 + 2 x 1tb m2 nvme ssd

is even more capable than he needs. use the 1000eur saved to buy some nice speakers!

 

Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2024