To be fair Mr. Heckmann we also advertise for you, we review your software, give honest feedback and I've put together teams to help developers script libraries and code plug-ins for free. Of course this is something that you won't hear discussed on KVR because it's an inconvenient truth. I can appreciate where you're coming from being a dev myself and it is your software and you have made an investment in it. However I still don't agree with you because 1 download doesn't equal 1 lost sale and there are no guarantees that a developer should see such and such amount of money. Though I will admit the software landscape is different than movies and music where it is already common knowledge that pirates buy WAY more than normal users and this has been substantiated with heaps of impartial research. Adobe, FXPansion, Microsoft, Native Instruments, etc. seem to be having no problems though their products are pirated en masse and in fact I'd wager that it is in large part responsible for their success making them household names just as it is responsible for making u-he a household name. However piracy is only good when it's making people famous, how convenient.

Klanghelm released software with no copy protection and a great price and even though it was on hand the moment it came out AudioZ delayed the release for a VERY long time so he could make a return on his investment. I respect the developer so much that if it were solely up to me I would ask the uploaders not to release it at all, wouldn't bother me one bit because this is one dev that I HAD to support. We also remove software when a DMCA is sent to us from an account associated with the developer, something that not every site will do. I think copyright protection should not exist and by default I will avoid ever buying software from companies that implement the words iLok, timebomb, etc. You openly speak of helping other developers implement this system, refer to us as fools and then you wonder why we call you out. Piracy is not going to go away, it will just become bigger no matter how many iLoks, lawsuits, timebombs you might throw at the problem. Piracy is a response to an age in which consumers have been screwed over for decades and were afforded no protection against it. Nobody ever mentions how unfair it is to not be able to demo a thousand dollar library, that is not even a glimmer in anyone's mind. No devs ever bring up the tyrannical control that Pace has over legit customers either. Had you implemented limited copy protection I would have already purchased a few of your synths since I would be able to demo them properly but since I always get timebombs even though I have used them very little I will never do so largely because I don't want to support systems of control no matter what shape or form they take. I honestly don't even care anymore because I have put u-he out of my mind as something I will ever invest in, there are enough alternatives out there and some of them are even legitimately free. All you will serve to do is alienate potential customers which you already have.

We have no idols here. We respect R2R because they work tirelessly for free to give people control of their demoing experience and bring tools to people that could never afford them in their lifetimes. Now I know that many devs think this is bullshit but it is most certainly not. Yes some people will never buy because they're too cheap but things like that tend to come full circle when their music or software gets pirated. Comments such as this are derogatory in nature because it makes an implicit declaration that we are teenagers and nothing could be further from the truth. Most of us are around your age and believe it or not we don't take kindly to being referred to as fools. Some of these fools do greater and more important work for free than all the geniuses of the developer world that only create because they are awaiting a check for their time and effort.

 

You spoke out my feelings & thoughts about that, dear Catalyst.
No developer (such as U-he) should be entitled to feel and act as a Master-Supervisor on a public forum.
But I didn't even know that U-he doesn't have an own Forum board. That surprises me.
I also understand that KVR wants to represent just the "clean" sides of reality,
but constant suppression of opposite opinions and ways of thinking doesn't make a site
very democratic, the opposite: it goes into a fascist direction. It's not good at all.

 

Hello all and my apologies for my english.
i´m a musician, singer and i lived by and for the music since I was three years old, believe me it's true and i have a lot of years now, believe me too.
All days i visit AudioZ site and you give me a lot of inspiration and constant information about things that I'm interested
I want you to know how much I appreciate the work you do, all of you, the developers, teams and the warez people.
AudioZ changed my life because I've always lived around sound banks and melodies.
My idea is to buy at some point in my life some of the plugins that i use pirated today, but now unfortunately I can not do this.
I think that sites like Audioz provide much more than many developers believe, for the musicians and developers, yes developers.
if it were not for places like this people would not know anything about many plugins and virtual instruments
Buy or not buy is not the edge on this question, at some point we all feel some guilt for being unable to pay the devs for the work they deserve, but musicians like i we do not have the resources to get all the tools for our music.
The majory of the musicians can not sell their own music anymore, the world has changed and we have tried to accommodate to the new trends.

There is a phrase that says: "live and let live", peace for all

 

If the community is built around software developers showcasing their products and teaching their customers how to use them, I see no reason why they shouldn't keep discussion about pirated software at a minimum. It's their community, it's how they are running it. Not every forum/community needs to be a model of 'democratic' free information resources. There are other sites, this one included, to fill that gap for those seeking it however.

This site is a community of people dedicated to the spread of free information, which I am grateful for. Just because this is a forum model that we enjoy, doesn't mean we need to bash the other site for their own model. Though 90% of the software on my computer is cracked and pirated, I still have huge respect for the people who put in the time and effort to create the software, uhe software is great for what it is, and I use it frequently. While I can't financially support the developers at this time, that doesn't mean we don't have to respect their wish to keep information about crackable software that they have put time into from getting to their target audience, the very people that buy their software and fund more development.

Just some food for thought. It would be the exact same case if people came on here and scolded us for doing what we do.

 

We don't deny it - we actually use it. While it's not true that our software "phones home", it sometimes presents users with weblinks that open in a browser. From the clicks on these links we can roughly estimate how many people use cracks. By using standard website analytics we can also track how many people then buy.

The number of people who use cracks without buying is somewhere between 50 and 500 times higher than the number of people who "try before you buy". Thus we can say, in general piracy is just freeloading and the advertisement effect is minimal. It's not much more than an excuse to commit a crime.

Recent books about software piracy put this into the realm of a belief system, just like religion or conspiracy theories. There's made up beliefs that are reiterated over and over until everyone within that belief system takes it for a truth. Those beliefs, such as "people wouldn't buy anyway" and "there is no damage" however are not based on any fundamental evidence. They are bogus memes that help people clean their conscience.

On our side however we have fundamental proof of a lot of negative effects. I know of at least three products which have been discontinued because of the effects of piracy on a developer's physical and psychological condition. We know that once Waves was cracked, not only Waves but also two competing companies nearly went out of business. Sales simply went down by a large margin, literally over night. But the costs of running a business are still there. One can't just switch gears and go on on a smaller scale. One of those companies has never recovered, they had to let go of their main developers. And those two companies are just those I know of, I'm sure there are more. Nevtherless, there will be people who will abandon this reasoning as just more bullshit. And that is why we're talking about a belief system - it defies logic.

#---

For the record, I can not ban people at KVR, I can just moderate topics in the u-he subforum.

 

When crime becomes the norm...

 

Yep, that's exactly what we're going to do.

Unfortunately 30 trial day periods don't work with our protection. However, we're evaluating things like "the first instance is free" or "it's fully functional until you re-open the project". Can't say when this will happen and for which products, but it's part of our long term strategy. It's also something not done lightheartedly because we're dealing with many different hosting platforms and we can't afford this to go wrong.

 

I'm not just saying this because U-He are in the house but the moment I heard Zebra/Zebra 2 I purchased it because it was clearly evident alot of hard work went into creating it and it was going to increase my musical experience big-time. But the most important hook for me to part with my money on plugins is Compatibility and Stability. If they fail in either of these, its simple - I don't buy it and I went thru decades of misery and loss being hard done by some developers in these areas.

I just want to ask U-he or Urs this (If indeed it is the real person). What is your view on Future Music concerning the videos they released featuring Avicii and Martin Garrix using cracked plug-ins? These guys make more money in 2 hours of dj'ing than perhaps most of us here put together..

I think Future Music decided to ignore this due to these artists having 'famous status' and showed that they were exempt from paying. Not your typical behavior from a long running and respected magazine. But hey, if magazines 'promote' this then I guess it's justified.

 

hello, friends, hello, foes,

wrote couple of times, on different occasions, that all the products made by mr. heckmann are, except in client serving environments, fully usable, even in their demo version... *yes*

this here me feels that this is what is intended by the measures he, his team, uses in all the softwares they, quite generously, release... *yes*

always have thought about this as one very usable solution, balanced answer, to the problems piracy might mean... *yes*

perhaps this here me is alone with this opinion, so be it... *yes*

all the best for all of us...

 

Well, I can't agree that you're using some superior logic here. I think you're actually just doin what you accuse the other side of, lookin at the issue mainly from your own POV. I don't blame you in any way for this, it's normal human behaviour.
But if you try to step away from your own personal situation and look at the big picture, what does it tell you?

The media industry has been cryin wolf about piracy ever since 'don't copy that floppy'. Now it's been goin on for decades (a really long time in the digital domain) and has the media industry died? No, it has not. AAMOF it has actually done the opposite, it is bigger than ever. So if numbers don't lie, this is simple proof that in the big scheme of things web piracy is not a lethal threat to business.

The reason why software industry has been able to grow a lot is because we built this open web with fast connections. Now that same web is also the reason why warez started to be widely shared. That's just the way it is, two sides of the same coin and you can't have one without the other. One POV can't control the whole world.
The only way you could've stopped piracy would've been to practically shut down the web, and how good do you think that would be for software dev's?
That would kill way more business than piracy could ever come anywhere close to.

So when I look at the big picture and try to use some simple logic, this is my conclusion:
In the digital domain it's just like everywhere else in this crazy world. Some business will grow, some even to grotesque proportions, some will struggle, some will blame their problems on others and some will even have serious trouble with pirates. But that is simply the price you have to pay for these booming internets, just as we have to pay the price of identity theft, hackers, virus attacks or an endless stream of braindead comments in social media.
You can't have the cake and eat it too.

 

Real person here ;-)

I think that using cracks for those videos is just lame. Maybe they did it to keep up some kind of "gangsta image". Maybe in those circles it's en vogue to pirate.

However, pretty much each of the guys who got caught on FM videos was already a paying customer of ours. As such, no harm done to us.

I can't speak for the media industry in general. I can only speak for us and - to some degree - for the plug-in developer community.

What I say can be backed up by figures, whereas "piracy doesn't hurt anyone" or the even more fragile "we do you a favour if we pirate your software" can't. Both points contradict. One is easily proven, the other one is a belief. That logic is simple enough for me.

 

*no* No, no, no that's not the point.
You (& other developers) make it too simple, it's too easy to say that piracy is the main reason for the failures of software companies! There are dozens and dozens of factors that are involved that can lead to success or failure.

I believe that the big success of Native Instruments is based on real innovation, also regarding too strict copy protection methods. NI was generous right from the start, offering fully working demo software, limited only by a 30 minutes margin per use. That was a clever move. Why other companies do not adopt a similar system? Well, most developers think that users of demo versions will not buy the software if it's too close to the full product. That's the hook!! Indeed their lack of trust and confidence generates the phantoms of fear, the fear of pirated copies that will ruin their business. So it's all in the mind!

I understand that smaller companies that offer just a couple of products are living under the sword of Damocles, if their products line get targeted by pirates, they don't have other resources… but they cannot blame others for their own faults. Business is like this: success is not eternal, you'll have your good times and also the bad times. And you have to know when it's the right time to stop, retire or change some structures.

 

Yeah man, just like I said, you're lookin at the issue mainly from your own personal situation.

Again, internet has made a lot of new opportunities for business but like everything else it comes with a prize, for instance makin it very easy to share warez. Since millions of ppl all over the world wanna do this and don't feel that it's wrong from their POV you can't stop it, and no business is gonna benefit from tryin to turn millions of kids into criminals just cause they have a different mindset about digital copies.
Well, if you're a nasty lawyer or building prisons I guess you could profit from such a strategy as we've seen from that war on drugs that is goin so well, but I can't see it doin much good for software dev's.

So I'm just sayin that some stuff that seem bad to you, are good for a lot of others, including many many companies. The very same things that make piracy easy are helping some guys to make a whole lotta moolah. I'm curious, would you say that Google are criminals since they've helped ppl to find links to warez for years? Or every ISP should be shut down cause a lot of their traffic (read: profit) comes from sharing? Or is it just the ppl who do sth for free and fun who are the bad guys?

Anybody who wanna do business in the digital domain have to adapt to these facts, you can't force the world to be just as you want it and IMHO time is better spent tryin to create new ways to make things work instead of fightin windmills.

-------------
BTW, I also wanna say that I appreciate and respect you comin here and talkin about your POV. That's another thing i think would be very beneficial for more guys on different sides, to have some open conversations instead of tryin to turn each other into villains.

Peter Sunde at a democracy conference:
"How to do a revolution of the internet? Would you start a Facebook group to stop Facebook?"
.

 

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that piracy is the reason for failure of software companies. I wouldn't rule out that it contributes to it, but for this I have no evidence - hence I wouldn't make that point.

Twisting arguments is not going to improve your moral grounds. You make assumptions about my motives, like you make up assumptions about business models and like you make assumptions about the "harmlessness" or "goodness" of piracy. You have no idea about the real impact and the reality of running a software business in general, and that's why you revert to some sort of belief system to justify your actions.

Your main reason to attack me is to keep believing what you do. Because I have evidence that what you believe is wrong. It's really quite as simple as the discussion between a quantum physicist and a radical priest.

 

@ u-he

Speculating on unknown morals of other people doesn't make you noble!
So to me (and not only) you sound like the "radical priest".
If you can't accept the reality that piracy is a real fact in the
software world, you'll better retire and do something else.
I believe you're loosing lots of important energies with your "holy battle".
And please stop pointing out the things as if I was the Author of U-he cracks.

 

I hereby certify that I accept that piracy exists. Why else would I fight it? - Your twisting arguments again. Please stick to what I say, not to what you believe I should have said so you could make a point.

There is no holy battle. There's just people who infringe our copyrights, and we do whatever we can to either stop them from doing so. We owe this to all those people who use our software legally.

I can also dig out a post of you where you are admitting to be assessory to crackers. Therefore you are part of this and therefore... but d'oh, you'll probably twist that argument again.

 

Who told you a forum is democratic ?
You don't have a right to be there, only a privilege, live along the local rules, or GTFO. Simple as that.
Some forums are smoother than other. Don't expect all of them to be that way, it's not always for the worth.

 

Sorry but it's you twisting the reality.
Your assumption that I'm part of a cracker Team is simply wrong.
You built it up in your brain and also writing false things about me on KVR.
What you've done there goes beyond any good taste.
How can you know something about me when you don't know me?
But I see… it's wasted time trying to talk to you.

 

http://audiosex.pro/index.php?/topic/12106-this-needs-to-be-said/page__view__findpost__p__81674

You write: "Some years later - after the great Team DYNAMICS had left the scene - I've started to work with Team xdb."

What else needs to be said? You "work with Team dbx", thus you are assessory to crackers. Plain, simple, too late to deny.

 

Since the great URS is here (its really great because he is actually speaking and hearing)
Once upon I time I was a guy that studied 10-12 hours per day every damm day piano at university ( I almost have 2 degrees), I started my studio paying all my softwares here in Brazil (no internet at this point) where we pay at least 250% of the real price of software... I always use PC and Mac and at this this I payed for software x 2 because there is not cross grade soft..
Others studios used all cracked and of course they earn a lot more than me, without know how to use the equipment and music (no formation at all).
One they I started to be tired, and I wait 20 ears to discover that I have Ankylosing spondylitis, and this is harder than you can imagine.
I always see discounts for studants, but how about people with desease?
I really love your products, but I can aford because I do not work, bur I devoted all of my energy to make my exercises (that I must do if I dont want to have all my bones glued) and music.
Many days I can only work with a mouse, organizing libs or cleaning...here have at least one good friend in this forum, but I believe that there is a lot more.
So heatlhy people that, especially the ones that live in first world, how about the ones that have problems that are bigger than piracy?
Urs, believe or not there are really good felows here and I know that a lot of the payied for software, sometimes payied and never used, but as I understand the act of hearing and speaking make us a better people.
Thanks a lot for all the ones who make the same